Ok, its the FNG (Freakin' New Guy) again with more questions. :rolleyes:

I am still undecided as to which separate I want. I have visited both Rotel and NAD forums to attempt to ascertain the differences between the three top choices (in fact, I even entertained the idea of Sunfire & Bryston but figured what's the sense of paying a gazillion $$$ for separates by these guys if I can get a system that is close but doesn't cause me to hock the cat and dog), so I am back to the decision of Outlaw vs. Rotel. Having said that, my question of the day is actually directed to "Ritz" (however, others should feel free to provide additional comments) and it is in regards to his setup, so here goes:

I am seriously considering the Magnepan 1.6s. Initially, I was interested in the Mag 12s however the 1.6s do not take up any more room than the 12s plus the dealer is willing to give me a 20% discount on his magnepan 1.6 floor/demo to include a 20% discount on the hugmongous Center Channel 3. I noticed that in Ritz's setup he has the Maggies for the fronts and using a DT for the center channel. How is that combination working out for you? I had actually considered the Mirage Omni-Center Channel (bi-polar) as an option instead of the Mag. CC3. I was told that center channels that are not of the same manufacturer/model as the fronts could cause problems (in how the sound is distributed across the front). For reference my setup is going into an apartment living room (18'x12' or + or - a foot). I actually looked at other speakers (Martin Logan's Clarity; Mirage OM-7; Rocket 750s) but keep coming back to the Maggies. I love that sound that comes from them. So what are the views of the very kowledgeable within this forum?

Thank You All in advance.

Paladin

Oops! I forgot to add that the Outlaw system I am considering is the 990/7500. The Rotel system is the 1068/1095.

I am happy with the sound of the DT center. I've never personally experienced the "timbre matching" issue that is oft tossed around. I've also used the DT center when I was using Dahlquist DQ20i mains. It blended in perfectly there too.

If you are going to use balanced interconnects then the 1095 might be an OK amp. If not, I'd use the 1077. As for the 7500, people have been complaining about it in the forums a bit. The common thread seems to be hum and ground loop issues. You might want to check out the 7500/7700 forum before making that buying decision. It could be nothing...or it could be a sign of a real problem.

Good luck!

In the message above, answering Paladin, Ritz wrote:

The common thread seems to be hum and ground loop issues. You might want to check out the 7500/7700 forum before making that buying decision. It could be nothing...or it could be a sign of a real problem.

I have been "playing with" or "debugging" this issue. It is absolutely NOT the fault of the amp.
Amp is dead quiet when not connected to Pre/Pro. Slight hum this AM when connected unbalanced. So I tried some old MIC cables (XLR(F)-XLR(M). Voila...no hum!!! Now I'm not stating that this is the answer. There is another variable and that is that the amp had been on for an hour this AM.
So I'll eliminate that factor by leaving 7700 off for a few hours. Then if the balanced connections continue to be associated with dead quiet, I think I can draw the obvious conclusion.

So in response to Ritz: the amp ain't the problem.
In response to Paladin: I use electrostats also, up front L & R. I also use a center that is not timbre matched. I am delighted with the 990-7700 combo...AND YOU CAN'T BEAT THE PRICE !!!

Ground loop issues? Slight hum? Ok, what are the ground loop issues, how does one correct them and since it is not an issue with Amp, what causes the hum in the amp? Connections? Wiring? speakers?

BTW: When researching the other forums (especially Rotel)I have found that when making comparisons between the two Pre-/Proc.s are generally between their 1068 and Outlaws somewhat dated 770 (or is it 750), however, I have yet to see anything posted on Rotel forum comparing the 990 vs. the 1068.

THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO.....HMMMMMMM!

nfa,

I'm referring to specifically to a fellow who had a 755 and simply swapped in a 7500 and had the problem. Oh wait! That was you! heh. Again, it might be the amp or it might not. I don't have one to test and am happy with my "ancient" 755. 8-)

If someone is comparing the 1068 to an older Outlaw pre, it's probably the 950. The 990 is a big step up from the 950.

The Rotel 1068 isn't crap, but on the pre-processor side I'd say the 990 is a far better bang for the buck. On the amp side, as I posted previously, I think the Rotel digital amp would be an ideal choice in your situation (as long as you don't need balanced connections). The other amps (1095 and 7500) seem like overkill for a small space. But hey, if you've got budget...it's better to err on the side of overkill in the audio world. 8-)

Cheers,

Ritz, thank you for the info. which leads to my next question...

why would a person need balance vs. unbalanced? What is the purpose and how does it affect sound/sonics?

I am leaning very heavily (98%) toward the Outlaw 990/7500; however, your comment about mixing the 990 with the Rotel 1095 is something I had not considered and will now look into. I am not one who needs to have all of my components matching in appearance. While Rotel is visually more appealing than the Outlaw, my first priority is functionality.

I agree, the Rotel 1095/Outlaw 7500 is overkill but I figured what the hell, if I am going to go separates I may as well go for the gusto (within my budget), keeping in mind that the Maggies love a lot of power (200+ watts seems to be the magic number for the maggies, thus, the 1095/7500).

The balanced/unbalanced argument has been beaten to death in the forums. Search around a bit. 8-)

NFA seems able to make his humming 7500 stop humming when he uses balanced connections....

Yes, the Maggies like a lot of power. They're somewhat inefficient. For what it's worth, I'm soon going to be driving mine (just the front pair of Maggies) with a Lyngdorf SDA2175. That will give the Maggies about 375wpc and I'll continue to use the Outlaw 755 for all the other speakers.

Cheers,

Ritz, thank you for your comments/suggestions. be sure to keep us all informed as to how your maggies perform with the Lyngdorf.

Cheers to you as well,

Paladin

Paladin928, a heretical question:

Are you sure you actually need a center channel? I ask because with my Maggie 1.6QR's about 8 feet apart, toed in and flanking the two vertical parts of a display unit with a Panasonic 42" plasma screen in the middle, I get very good center fill from my viewing position 8-9 feet back, whether watching video or listening to stereo. There is "even a good illusion of surround sound, and I mean 360 degrees, on some material; it was amazing on "Monsters Inc".

I think - anybody reading this please correct me! - that the main advantage of any center channel speaker is to broaden the listening sweet spot. Yes, I do plan to get a Maggie MMG-C and a pair of MMG-W's - eventually. There are higher items on my priority list though.

Re your amps, I've written elsewhere in the Saloon about the illogic of enormous wattage to drive any speakers, even Maggies, in real-world use (auditorium-sized venues excepted). My nOrh L2 monoblocks are supposed to pump 400 watts into my Maggies but I doubt if I've ever actually gotten within 7 dB of that. (That's 80 watts.) The challenge in my other message still holds: someone show me actual measurements of the power, including peaks, being delivered to any speaker in real-world conditions, involving commercially available source materials played at usable listening volumes in a real, not demonstration or simulation, situation.

Your 375-watt amplifiers should be more than enough, is what I'm trying to say, and I KNOW you'll be pleased with the Maggie 1.6QR's.

Best,

Paul Nay

Oops - it's Ritz who's getting the 375-watt amps. Sorry all for the confusion.

Hey Ritz, it might be interesting to drive one Maggie with the new Lyngdorf (after a suitable breakin period) and one with the old Outlaw, on mono material, using the 990's rather inconvenient remote channel balancing capability, and let us know what actual differences you hear. I realize this ignores any possible difference in stereo imaging, etc.

I did a head to head, but I think that is very subjective since I knew which one was connected at all times. I found the Lyngdorf did better justice to heavy plucked bass in a lot of jazz material I listen to. I also felt like I had a wider soundstage (if you can imagine that...since I agree with your comment about the fat sweet spot of the maggies).

After a few days, they needed the demo back and now I'm waiting for my unit to ship. That was the best listening experience I've had with my Maggies to date so I think it's going to be a good fit. It's not quite up there with a TACT pre/amp combination (with the corner loaded woofers), but I'll settle for now. 8-) I'm also thinking of getting a Velodyne/Outlaw SMS to dial in the bass a bit better.

Cheers,