Good Morning (EST) to All.

Initially this post is directed to "Ritz" (because he has the Magnepan Electronstatic speakers) and then I will continue the rest of my questions:

Ritz, I am considering the Magnepan 12s (mainly because I live in an apoartment, therefore, the 1.6 would take up over a 1/3 of my living room space)for the front (LR). A dealer of the Maggies is willing to sell me his floor demos for $880, and the humongous Maggie Center speaker for $790. I am not all that thrilled with the size of the Center speaker, but noticed that you are using a DefTech center. How is that working out for you? The dealer thought that a center speaker other than an electrostatic might cause some sound issues.

Ok, now on to the topics of the day...As I mentioned I am fairly new to the world of separates. Initially, I had considered going for the Flagship receivers of either Denon or Pioneer but ultimately decided that separates are the way to go which put me in a quandry. I Have researched the issue of separates until my eyes are crossed and I am not better off for it. To many choices, to little money...lol. I understand that name brand separates are a matter of personal choice, some people prefer astethics over function, while it is reeverse for others and of course there is $$$. I am not looking for High-End equipment that will cause me to go out and rob a bank to pay for, however, I don't want something that is not going to hold up (soundwise) functionally.

I have researched the following manufacturer's equipment: OUTLAW, NAD, ROTEL, SHERWOOD NEWCASTLE, and a couple of others and I am no closer to making an informed decision than I was when I began this quest.

I am looking for a Power AMP (200W per channel @ 7.1 channels), and a Pre-amp/Sound Processor. I am not sure which bells and whistles I will need and which are just nice to have. Is Bass Management an issue? I don't know, its hard to say what is and is not an issue without knowing what it does (or doesn't do).

The type of listening will vary according to mood swings (lol); however, I can say that 70% is DVD/TV, 30% Music (Jazz, Classical, Hip-Hop, etc, etc.) and the remaining 10% Video games.

Yes, I have actually auditioned the Rotel Amp/Pre-amp/Processor however I was not impressed with the salesperson. When I mentioned that my other choices are Outlaw, NAD, and Sherwood Castle, I detected a look of disgust. In fact, he proceeded to tell me that they were ok but they weren't Rotel. Yes, I know he has a vested interest in selling me his brand; howewver, it turned me off immediately. He also tried to steer me in the direction of some really "butt ugly" floor standing speakers. B & W something are another. Yes, I know they are high-end speakers and will do everythng to include make me dinner. However, IMHO they are still UGLY speakers...lol And in the event that there are people on this site who own them and are offended...please accept my apologies.

Ok, I digress...the point is what is it that you guys (and gals) like about the Outlaw equipment that won you over?

Thank you all for your patience for putting up with this rather lengthy post.

Paladin

Performace at its price level and better customer service than you will get at a local hi-fi shop.

Hey there,

In your shoes, I'd probably get the MMG instead of the 12's. They are slightly smaller and have almost exactly the same specs (better high frequency extension but bass down to 50hz rather than 45hz). They are also cheaper @ $550/pair brand new direct from Magnepan. The MMGC is also available direct and I think it's only $299. It's also smaller than the C1. I'm pretty happy with the way my DT speaker blends with the 1.6's. I think the argument that the center speaker has to be "voiced" similar to the mains is mostly BS so you might want to just focus on what fits in your living space and THEN narrow your choices based on sound.

As for the pre-processor, the 990 is hands down the best deal these days. I'd definitely choose it over anything from NAD or Rotel. As for the Sherwood Newscastle...I forget the model number, but their pre and the Outlaw 990 are basically the same physical hardware with different software. So if it was me, I'd probably just buy whichever one is the cheapest. When I first picked up the 990, I thought Outlaw would be Johnny-on-the-spot with firmware updates for the 990, but that hasn't been the case. Read the forums and check on the various features/bugs as that may also affect your choice of Outlaw vs Sherwood Newcastle.

For the power amp, 200wpc might be overkill in such a confined space. Even if you can stand the sound levels, your neighbors might not. 8-) I've been pretty happy with the Outlaw 755 (which is no longer available). There's always the Outlaw 7500 which should be ample to drive the MMGs or (hold your nose) the Rotel RMB-1077 which would probably put out over 200wpc into the Maggies' 4 ohm load, use a LOT less power, take up a LOT less space, and generate a LOT less heat. If it's within your budget, I'd probably go that route even though it's a little more expensive than the 7500.

Lastly, you'll want to invest in a nice subwoofer. The Outlaw LFM-1 is a very capable unit, though I'm not sure you could easily "hide" it in a small apartment. 8-) If you end up wanting to go this way, email me offline. I've got an extra one (and I've got a MUCH bigger room) that I leave off most of the time. There's also the smaller LFM-2. I've never heard the LFM-2 myself. The LFM-1 will rattle your fillings out without breaking a sweat. 8-)

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

I ended up with Outlaw gear when I decided to give Dolby Digital audio a try back in 2000 - the old Model 1050 seemed to offer all the features I might need for less money than the alternatives I considered (it actually cost the same as my Yamaha had three years earlier, but offered a lot more for the same money). I've continued to use various Outlaw gear for the same basic reasons that Doug917 lists: an appealing balance of performance and cost, customer service that is better than any of the local shops could hope to offer, and an online community here in the forum that I enjoy.

Ritz mentioned that the Maggies are a 4 ohm load. In that case, you might also consider the Model 7125 - it's a traditional class AB amp design that will do 190W per channel into a 4 ohm load and 125W per channel into an 8 ohm load. The Rotel 1077 is an interesting looking unit (with the low form factor and minimal heat output of a digital amp), but the 7125 in a package with the 990 would have a pretty appealing price tag ($1900, to be exact).

Hi Paladin98 -

Several answers to your post from here:
1. I don't understand your "1/3 of my living room space" comment since at 17" wide the footprint of the Magneplanar 12 (NOT an electrostatic, BTW) is not all that much smaller than the 19" width of my Maggie 1.6's - unless maybe you meant visual anheight.
But just from the standpoint of sound quality I'd sure recommend Maggies over any competition, as long as there is at least 18" (ideally 3 feet but let's stay real for apartments) behind them. They are NOT happy backed against walls. I've heard both the MMG and my 1.6's, but not the 12; however from reports it should be closer in sound to the 1.6, which is all to the good, not that the MMG is any slouch. The 1.6's bass is -3dB at 40Hz and the MMG at 50Hz and that difference is very significant if you like unamplified music, especially orchestral and/or organ as I do. On the other hand I don't yet seriously miss a subwoofer. The 12 might have enough bass for you or it might not.
2. Power: By its specs, to emit a steady-state "pink noise" at a 90-dB level - which is VERY loud; try it some time) the Maggie 12 requires - are you ready for this? - about two and a half watts. Sound levels of 100 dB are about what an orchestra playing fortissimo achieves from the position of the conductor. So references to the indispensability of >200 watts per channel, for seven channels, are IMO just nonsensical. Sure one wants a good cushion for peaks, but I want to see the evidence of >200 watt power delivery from the amplifier, when playing any actual material in a real listening situation in a real apartment environment, with real neighbors one really has to remain on good terms with.
3. Finally, the 990: I got mine because it has a phono input and I still play vinyl from time to time - a consideration which certainly doesn't apply to everybody. I was interested in the Sherwood Newcastle P965 before the 990 came out; all the same capabilities + $400 less = no-brainer for me, even before I learned that the two are first cousins. I'd hoped it would sound at least as good as my (20-year-old) Adcom TP500 but wasn't prepared for how much better the sound is in every way - transparency, bass detail and reach (yes, I can hear the difference even with the "40Hz" Maggie 1.6's), and even phono reproduction.
4. Re power amps, I'm using the nOrh Le Amp 2 monoblocks, made in Thailand by an American expat; look them up at www.norh.com. They are being replaced by the L3 which are spec'd at 160 watts into 8 ohms and should deliver at least 250 to the 4-ohm Maggies, so there should be no worries even for those not convinced by #2 above. They'll be $300 each including shipping. I have no connection to the manufacturer except affection because of the very good service I've had from them and the marvelous sound of their product. They do have two disadvantages that might be deal breakers for you that I have to point out: as far as I know they don't have either 12v trigger or audio signal turn-on capability, and of course each has its own power cord, so for convenienced you's probably want to invest in a terminal box that can be trigger controlled. But probably (if my experience with the L2 is any guide) no apologies need be made for their sound on music, even for listeners who judge them against the real thing.

Best to you whatever you end up with,

Paul Nay

Hi PsyProf1,

Thank you for your response. Yes, I was referring to the visuals of having both the Left, Right and center channel speakers taking up 1/3 of the space in my living room. The C3 Center Channel is a huge center channle speaker all on its own...lol. You are correct, the Maggies really would not take up 1/3 of the space it just seems like it would. I was also in error that the Magnepans are (true) electrostatic speakers, it was a poor choice of words especially since I know that they are Quasi-Ribbons.

As for the power amp; I suppose my need for a big wattage power amp is due in part to (1) the fact some speakers require a lot of power to drive them and (2) the fact that I do not want to purchase a mid-level power amp now and then later have to upgrade to a more powerful amp (for whatever reason). The Outlaw 7125 that Gonk suggested makes perfect sense and for which I will give serious consideration along with the Outlaw 990.

Question: Are you using the Magnepan C3 Center Channel or some other center channel with your 1.6s?

Thanks for your comments.

Laurence

Hello everyone,

I hope you don't mind me butting in here but as Ritz knows I have been in the Maggie dilemma for a few weeks now myself (as illustrated by my thread over on the System Saloon). I have the 990/7125 combo right now with the 7500 on the way to replace the 7125 this week. I ordered and received Axiom M80's last week which are also a factory direct purchase with a 30 day window to return them, and not a bad sounding speaker. I didn't pursue the Maggies, as much as I loved them when I auditioned them at a local high end shop, because of their size (the 1.6's) and the wife acceptance factor. Now you guys have me thinking again. I'm tempted to order the MMG's which are also a factory direct order and returnable, and see how they compare to the Axioms in my house (That should really thrill my wife). The Maggies sounded great in the showroom but they were being driven by some very expensive electronics in an acoustically ideal environment.

Thanks for letting me into the conversation. I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments.

Regards.

Paladin98, right now I have 2 nOrh monoblocks and am running a pure stereo system: no center channel. Nor, I have to say, do I miss it for most of my listening, which is not HT. Though I think it would probably widen the sweet spot. If/when I go full HT it will probably be with the Maggie MMG C in the center and a pair of MMG W's for surround duty; I can push them with my old Adcom GFA535 but may have to get the nOrh L3 for the center. It's funny, though, that even with no center or surround channels at all we can get very good apparent surround sound; the effect on "Monsters Inc" was startling, with voices clearly coming from the rear!
7.1? Not in my condo.
Korkster, having had MMG's in my home for 60 days and now owning 1.6QR's, I can tell you the former can sound marvelous in a large room but the latter are a lot more marvelous, especially in the bass with good electronics like the 990 and the nOrh monoblocks.

Best to you both.