Hi All,

Posted a few times now. I just wanted to say that so far, service has been outstanding. I ordered the 990 on the 7th of FEB. and Fedex was here with it on the 8th. Not sure if it was a local shipment (I'm in MASS). That was not only a surprise, but very awesome. I have not hooked it up yet, but I plan to over the weekend. I am going to compare it to my Pioneer VSX-54TX that I am currently using as a PRE only. I'm a fan of the dreaded pro-amp, of which I am running 5. I will not be doing a DB test since I do not have the facilities to appropriately accomodate that particular test type. My plan is to use the 990 for a week or so, and then switch back to the 54 for a week. I'm probably 95% HT and 5% music, so it should be interesting. From what I have read, the 990 seems to outperform other units in the music category more than anything else. I will use both the balanced and unbalanced connections on the 990 (not at the same time, obviously), just to get an idea of which (if either) actually sounds better than the other from a noise perspective in MY system. That's not entirely fair to the 54, but hey...life's not fair sometimes. My objective is to attain the best signal possible, so if the Outlaw provides that, even through balanced outs, then it's a keeper. If there is little or no difference, then it's going back. Ultimately for me, it's a cost vs. hassle/benefit situation. If I keep the 990, then I have to sell the 54, and ship it, and all that crap...not a deal breaker, but there needs to be substantial improvement in order for me to want to go through that "hassle." Cost is secondary, because ultimately I would expect the overall switch to cost me about $700. The only other consideration, is that I am also planning on upgrading my Ascend 340's to the 340SE's, so that cost also comes into play...again, not hugely, but it's there, and I would expect to see more of an improvement in my system through a better speaker, as opposed to a better processor...not always the case, but more often than not.

I'll let you all know how things go.

Since everyone seems so interested, I thought I would post some initial thoughts.

I hooked it up yesterday after work. Pretty simple stuff, nothing fancy, nothing difficult. My biggest problem was calibration - I'm used to my Pioneer which automatically brings the master volume to 0, so when I was trying to bring the speakers up to 75dbA, I was maxing out all of the gains...I knew something wasn't right...Anyway - I ended up figuring it out...DUH!!! I still had a tough time with the matching my IB, but it's also all set now.

Ironically, I haven't watched any movies yet, only some TV, which was great. Crisp, clean dialogue, good surround sound, nice channel separation, and good soundstage.

I have been listening to a lot of music, and 7 channel - PLIIX, blows away the Pioneer. The one option that makes the 990 better than the Pioneer is it's ability to adjust the "dimension." The Pioneer simply falls flat on the rears as far as I'm concerned, and I've thought that since I bought it. I don't have any SACD's or DVDA's, I just never got into it...but I might now. As for two channel, I'm not all that impressed. Granted, it probably has more to do with my system than anything else. I simply cannot defeat the sub enough to make the music sound good. I am running two Avalanche 18's and even with the 2 channel offset at -8, it's still way too much bass. What I don't know is if the 990 has the ability to set different levels for different inputs? If that were the case I could turn the sub down for music, and have it set at reference for movies/tv. If not, it's not a deal breaker, because I don't often listen in two channel anyway, it's mostly PLIIx for me...I just like it better...I did with the Pioneer as well. I am going to continue to mess with it to see if I can get the sub to match up for 2 channel though...maybe it's a bass setting thing (just thought of that).

Overall, I have to say that I am more impressed than I wanted to be. I really went into this very skeptically, and expecting only marginal improvement. I honestly DID NOT WANT TO LIKE (and my wife didn't want me to either, but our deal is that if I keep this and get the new Ascend 340SE's there's no more upgrades until at least my Birthday...which is December. Fair enough, since I've pretty much run the gambit on upgrades anyway).

I apologize for the lack of technicality expressed in my opinions, but I refuse to use the standard cliches, what sounds warm to one person doesn't to another...etc.

I plan on doing some movie watching tonight, so I should be back tomorrow with my initial views on that. I do still plan on a week long 'evaluation' period.

I do have a question: I noticed that the master volume maxes out at +3. I calibrated to 75dbA at 0 - trims range from -4 to +8. Unlike another person that was wasting time discussing how his receiver volume was at -25 when he watched tv and the 990 had to be at -15 for the same output (drove me nuts reading that), I'm just curious if there is a built in clip limiter. Don't get me wrong, at +3, it's plenty loud, and clean as can be, no distortion, no signs of strain...as a matter of fact, I've found myself listening to music at about -5...loud yet comfortable and not be fatigue inducing. Again, just a curiousity question.

Thanks for the info....very interesting as I have a Pioneer 1014tx and Ascend 340's, so keep the details coming. What amps are you using?

You need to look at gain and efficiency from source through speakers. I calibrate to 75 dbA at -9 on the 990 master volume, but I'm using balanced interconnnects which give 6db more signal at the amp inputs. Since you are using an internally generated signal for the source you don't have to consider anything further upstream than the 990, but you do need to look at interconnects (balanced or single-ended), amp gain and speaker efficiency. A quick google search yielded this intro. link

Speakers are very efficient (90db anechoic/92 in room), amp gains are set as to allow good headroom, and minimize any noise. I did tweak a couple of them up a bit, but I still calibrated 75dbA to 0. I am using unbalanced interconnects at the moment, but I plan on moving to balanced once the cables arrive.

Since we're in the middle of a blizzard at the moment, I've spent a majority of the day watching animated movies with my daughter. So far, I'm liking the 990. As far as I can tell so far, with what I have watched...Monsters Inc, and Ice Age...Spirit is in now...as with my impressions on PLIIx music, there is clearly more definition and more output from the rear channels, the sound is more enveloping than the Pioneer. Front stage is slightly better, especially at higher volumes. The dialogue is a bit clearer, and the panning effects are more noticeable; voices and actions more clearly go from one direction to another. For example, when someone is speaking off screen and to the right, but moving towards the screen, you can hear them clearly from the front right and then into the center as they approach the screen until they are acutally on screen and in the center. The Pioneer tends to be a bit more muddled in this regard, it's not as clear a transition as with the 990. As for sound effects, the two units are pretty close. There does seem to be a bit more localization with the 990, but not much (except with regards to surrounds and rear surrounds).

I'm going to try to get someting like LOTR or Batman Begins going...if the little one lets me.

The balanced interconnects should give you 6db more signal without raising your noise floor.

I'll take those 6db, but I'm more interested in the noise...or hopefully the lack of it. It's not bad with the unbalanced, but no better than the 54TX. I'm curious to see if it improves using the balanced outs.

You shouldn't be hearing noise. Hiss? Hum? All channels equally?

Have you done the usual diagnostics -- disconnecting the amp inputs, etc, moving up the signal path?

It's just a faint hiss, audible with your ear next to the tweeter, and does not increase or decrease with the volume adjustment. It's not that bad really, better than I originally thought. But when I first listened for it, I hadn't let the amps warm up at all. So it's actually no big deal.

That may simply be a mild bit of interference noise getting into your system somewhere. The 990 itself has been dead quiet for me, but I've also spent my share of time prior to the 990 upgrade fighting with cabling to prevent power cables from crowding interconnects and introducing noise similar to what you describe.

The funny thing about power cables is that all components except the 990, or any other receiver/pre I've looked at, are on the left hand side of the component...receivers/pres seem to be on the right hand side (when looking at it from the back). So I am having a bit of a tough time deciding the best path to route my cables. There seems to be a power supply or power cord no matter which way I turn...very frustrating.

Coupling from power cables into the signal cables would introduce a hum not a hiss, and they really have to be very close together for that to happen. And balanced interconnects would eliminate even that.

Regarding the hiss, is it still there with the amp inputs disconected, or even better, shorted?

Nope, not there when the signal cables are disconnected, and I haven't tried it with shorted plugs yet. I could be picking up some RF from somewhere, but I'm not sure.

Well, I finally got to watch a big person movie. I threw in Fellowship of the Ring. Now I suppose I can claim to have heard things that I didn't hear before. In the scene when Arogorn is taking the hobbits to Rivendell, there's a part when it's raining, but you can't really see it yet on the screen. Well I never heard it before either. At first I thought I was getting some kind of static or interferance, until I realized that it was rain...pretty cool. Overall, it was pretty awesome. I do find myself listening at much louder levels with the 990, than I did with the 54TX. The biggest part of that is simply due to the clarity of the presenation; it doesn't garble or muddle, it's clear no matter what the volume. Bass response was excellent, dialogue was outstanding. I should receive my balanced cables in the next day or two, so that'll give me a few days using those before I switch back to the Pioneer to round off the comparison. The ability to set different crossover freq's for different speakers is a definite plus. It will be especially useful when I receive my 340SE's, as they have a lower frequency extension than the 340 classics, so I will be able to cross them at 60hz. I currenlty cross the mains and center at 80hz and the surrounds at 100hz.

I suppose I'll have to modify all of my comments into one single review and post on AVS...that should start some interesting trouble . I'll post some more when I have some more to post, but now it's back to the 990.

I just want to clarify that any of my negative opinions in earlier posts were not meant as jabs at Outlaw or the 990. I was simply hoping that I wouldn't like the 990 or that the difference between it and the 54TX would be minimal so I could save myself some money...so far it's looking like that's not going to happen...nothing more than wichful thinking I guess.

See if the hiss goes away with the balanced interconnects. Some amps with both XLR and RCA inputs want to have one side of the XLR inputs shorted if using the RCA inputs. But if you don't have the shorting plugs and are getting the balanced cables soon, I'd just wait and see what happens when you switch to those.

Sounds good. I'll let you know how it goes with the balanced cables. Thanks again 3no

Okay, I got the balanced cables, hooked them up, and I got a good amount of both hum and static out of my FR channel. I'm pretty confident that it's the amp itself, since I swapped it with another one and the noise was pretty much gone. The problem is that I have to keep that amp in the loop, because it's all I have, so I think it's causing the system to be noisier than it should be. Oddly though, the unbalanced connections seemed to work fine - there was some hiss, but no hum or crackling. I've already ordered a new one, so we'll see how that goes.

Leave the XLR cables plugged in at the 990 end and swap FR and FL at the amp inputs. See if the hum/noise moves (990 or cable) or stays put (amp channel).

It moves

Then the problem must be before the amp, not the amp itself. To check the cable leave the amp ends of the XLR cables where they are and swap the 990 ends LF <--> RF. If the noise stays put the problem is the cable, if the noise moves the problem is before the cable (990, source).

No What I mean is that no matter which channel of the preamp I connect to that particular channel of the amp, that's where the noise is. So for example, if I connect the FL that speaker has noise, if I connect the Center - that channel has noise...etc. The other channel in the amp is fine, so I am running my center on that one, and I'm using another amp I had for mains, and it's quiet.

Are you using the same balanced cables to XLR inputs on the "another amp"? (Just checking to make sure it can't be a defective cable). If so, and the noise happens on only one channel of the original amp, but only with the XLR input and not with the RCA input, then it must be a problem with that channel of the amp - either the XLR connector/jack or the op amp that takes the difference between the two signals in the balanced input. All the circuitry after that point is common between the RCA and XLR inputs.

Yep, using the same cables. I did try swapping cables around at first, just to see if maybe it was one of them, but they all shared the same results. It's not a huge deal, I have a work around for now and a new amp on the way. Once I get the new amp, maybe I'll take this one apart and see if I might be able to fix it.

Just thought I'd post an update:

I've decided to keep the 990 over the Pioneer Elite 54TX. The detail in surround sound for both movies and music was simply too good for me to settle for less. There are some quirky things that I can live with (more like work through), but overall, it's really grown on me. I really like the multiple crossovers, the upgradeability,the surround presentation, the plethora of inputs, and the initial ease of use. Bass management takes a little getting used to, and I'm still working on it, but I have dialed it in much better than it was originally. One thing in particular that I really like is that I often find myself listening at reference levels, especially with movies. I was not really able to do that with the Pioneer; it didn't have the clarity and definition that the 990 has. It's a great piece at a great price...how could I pass on it.

Anyway - Thanks to all who helped and chimed in on various things.

Glad to hear that it's worked out for you, Bri.

I have a question (or series of questions)Is therea reason for the lack of a three prong plug. Wouldn't it only make sense since most amps are three prong? Is it a truly balanced system without a third prong? And lastly, are the grounds of the balanced connections tied to the signal ground or the chasis ground?

Thanks,
Brian

This thread may interest you - it touches some on why a two-prong power cord was used.

Thanks Gonk.

I have another question:

In 2.1 channel analog, my sub is playing well above the corssover...meaining Full range...I went through all of the settings and I can't find anything out of the ordinary...what am I missing?

Thanks,
Brian

Are you in analog bypass mode? If so, the digital bass management is also bypassed (since the signal never enters the digital domain), and the 990's approach to dealing with that when the mains are set to small (and therefore are requesting help from the sub) is to make a copy of the left and right channels, sum it, and send that summed full-range signal to the subwoofer.

I was in analog, but I don't think bypass, but I'll double check. That makes sense though, thanks Gonk!

This issue was the topic of much heated debate a while back - should the full range signal be sent to the sub in this mode. The s/w update may change this in the future.

I listen to my CD player through the analog inputs, speakers set to small. I change my subs (2x LFM-1) to internal crossover when listening to CD, from bypass when using DVD/movie mode (and 990 digital bass management).

dave

Yes, it's definitely not in bypass mode when this happens, and it ONLY happens in 2 channel stereo mode...in anything else, the signal is sent properly. I also have my speakers set to small with the crossover at 80Hz. I don't have a crossover on my sub, so I guess I'll either have to change the 990 X-over, change the speakers to large or both if I want to listen to two channel...which isn't very often, so it's not ahuge deal...more of an observation.

(EDIT)post deleted- i see that i just repeated what was already said a few posts up..... sorry

Try disconnecting your cable coming into the house. Thats what was causing my problems.