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#57677 - 02/12/06 11:01 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
MarkBK Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Middle America
tsd2005,
What receivers were compared?
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#57678 - 02/16/06 07:00 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
tsd2005 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by Ritz:
Which Bel Canto unit? I wasn't aware that Bel Canto even manufactured a multi-channel theater amp.

I have listened to Arcam units extensively and I don't see the dramatic difference you're referring to. I've not tried Bel Canto amps, but I have listened to Krell/Pass Labs/Parasound/Tact/Lyndorf and a few others that I'd consider higher end. Granted, the Arcam 300 sounds good, but so does the 990. I wonder if there wasn't some other issue that's being overlooked that influenced the sound so much...

Cheers,
The eVo6, which I think has been out in one form or another for years. Its a 6 channel version of the eVo2.

I could say the same for your reasoning behind Arcam for influencing sound. However it could be simply that the 990 didn't have good synergy with the Bel Canto. That happens often. It could be the AVM30 didn't match up well with the Bel Canto. We likely should have used it with multiple amps.

What I know is that for our Pre-Pro testing nothing came close to the $5,000+ AV8. Considering that it was up against an AVM30 ($3,500 roughly) and a NADT163 ($1,500) and a Outlaw 990 ($1,100) it shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

Perhaps Krell, etc. have comparable units. I don't know. I do know that the AV8 won more best of the year awards than any Pre-Pro not made by Theta Digital in the last decade. To me that is pretty good company.

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#57679 - 02/16/06 07:05 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
tsd2005 Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkBK:
tsd2005,
Thanks for the very interesting comments regarding your testing. I have been auditioning the AVR300 for the last 2 days and I must say I am EXTREMELY impressed with the 2 channel audio. Better than ANY other receiver I have ever heard. I've heard more clarity, stage depth, imaging and detail in these past 2 days than I ever had through most other systems. I look forward to hearing the 990 and possibly comparing it to this same receiver when I do get the Outlaw gear. I'd appreciate any other comments you might have - did you use direct outs in both reciever and Pre/Pro? Did you do any multichannel music?
I didn't do the hookups for the test. I was just a guy willing to give his opinion.

The Receiver test wasn't fair as there was Yamaha, Onky, and Pioneer Elite gear in it. The Denon 3805 came in 2nd behind the Arcams.

The Denon was rather musical as well. For me I've heard a lot of receivers and the Arcam does the best in both worlds of 2 channel and multi-channel (movie playback).

It was a blind test where no one was allowed to share their opinions. We just wrote down what we thought on each number. Then we wrote our scores out. No one talked, and the results were unarguable.

I've heard the 990 and I was impressed, but I haven't heard the 7125 which combined with the 990 could be better than the Arcam Receiver. I look forward to hearing what you find out.

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#57680 - 02/16/06 10:22 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
MarkBK Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Middle America
Thanks for the insight into the test. I'll let you know asap. i hope to do so in about two weeks
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#57681 - 02/17/06 03:09 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
charlie Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1176
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkBK:
.... I do wish Outlaw had made the power cord detachable on the 7125.
Why?

Quote:
Originally posted by tsd2005
It was a blind test ....
Could you expand more on the precise test proceedure?
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#57682 - 02/17/06 07:17 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
MarkBK Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 42
Loc: Middle America
different power cords can sometime be used as a tweak to the amp.
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#57683 - 02/17/06 07:35 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
Andrew S Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 35
Loc: Atlanta
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkBK:
different power cords can sometime be used as a tweak to the amp.
The impact of an aftermarket power cord on an amp's sound is left up to debate. If you can prove this to be true, the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay you $1 million dollars (www.randi.org)

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#57684 - 02/17/06 10:10 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
charlie Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1176
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkBK:
different power cords can sometime be used as a tweak to the amp.
Hmmm.

So, if I understand this correctly:

  1. You trust the engineers at Outlaw and their subcontractors to design and implement a product as complex as a modern multichannel amplifier, including all the QA and manufacturing issues associated with this undertaking, yet you think they'll screw up selecting an appropriate power cord?

    Does this seem reasonable to you?

    Also ....
    -----
  2. The power to run the amplifier comes from something like:
    1. Water flows through a turbine, spinning a shaft which turns a generator.
    2. The generator produces electricity, which is regulated and transmitted via a series of fuses, inductors, transformers, capacitors and other devices to a high voltage distribution system
    3. That power then travels hundreds or thousands of miles to a major substation, where it is again fused, transformed, run through inductors, capacitors, and so forth.
    4. A local distribution system brings the power to your curb, where it is again fused, transformed and runs via a few dozen or hundred feet to a distribution panel in your home.
    5. Inside that panel, the power runs through a main circuit breaker, an electrical bus, and a circuit breaker for the branch circuit in your home.
    6. Next, there is a 10-100 foot journey from the distribution panel to a wall recepticle
    7. FINALLY we travel a handful of feet to the device, in this case, our Outlaw amplifier. SO somehow this last few microscopic feet of the power distribution chain is very very critical ...

    I would suggest it's promoted as such to line the pockets of those who sell high end power wires.

It never made any logical sense to me, which is probably why that $1 million is unclaimed. Please understand, I'm not trying to be an ass, but I think that in any discussion of such things a bit of perspective helps. Also, extraordinary claims are usually expected to have extraordinary proof associated with them.

I'll be checking out Arcam though. smile
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#57685 - 02/17/06 11:32 PM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
AudioBear Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Champaign, IL
charlie,

you are not being a badass. you are spot on. it's all about making money on any part of the system you can sell the snake oil. powerlines can be noisy but powercords can do nothing but transmit what's in the line as long as the grounds are good and the contacts solid. I don't want to antagonize all those peope who have spent hundreds on power lines but yes, Outlaw can provide an adequate power cord.
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Champaign, IL

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#57686 - 02/18/06 02:53 AM Re: 990/7125 vs Arcam AVR300
syvlvr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 53
Loc: So Cal
Ok, so by this logic, does the analogy hold for the interconnects, speaker and sources? This is one I've struggled with over the years. Always thought somebody was making the emperor's new clothes!
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Current: Denon 3311ci, Anthem PVA 5A amp, Ascend Acoustics Sierra stereo mains, Ascend Acoustics 340 center, Aperion Surrounds, LG Plasma

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