Quick rundown...
Outlaw 990
Dual SVS 20-39 PCi subs hooked to a Behringer DEQ2496.

Issue: Currently I have the unbalanced outs going to each channel on the DEQ2496 and then the DEQ2496 going to the subs. Same config I had with my B&K Ref 31.

I've had to calibrate the 990 to -14dB on the Subwoofer to even get it within 5dB of the rest of the speakers - i.e. my speakers are all calibrated to 75dB and the sub to about 82.

The subs level (volume) knob is set to about 3 out of 10 on both subs.

Why is the sub level so high? It doesn't seem like there is any way to even get the subs at 75dB like the rest of the speakers.

The DEQ2496 is showing about 20Hz - 120Hz at measurable levels to the sub so it's not like I'm getting a full range signal that's skewing the results. I can't turn the subs down much lower because they're at 3 already.

I tried putting an XLR "Y" cable in but that made my sub level at the -14dB calibration to be at 92dB instead of the 82 of the unbalanced inputs.

There is an EQ gain on the DEQ2496 - should I drop that 10dB? Would that degrade the signal more somehow? Is there anything I'm missing here that I should be doing?

On the back of the Behringer 1124 there is an operating level button with the option of +4db or -10db. It is recommended for the 1124 to operate at -10db. Sounds like this could be your problem. If you have this option, make sure it is set to -10db.

Wow - I just can't seem to figure out what's going on.

First question: Upsample mode on a DVD will upsample the L/R channels in Dolby Digital, correct?

Second question: On the 990, I tried calibrating the sub under 4 different inputs....

1) CD - Upsample - OPT 1
2) Video 1 - PL II Movie - COA 1
3) Video 2 - Stereo
4) DVD - Upsample - OPT 2

On my B&K, the calibration signal from the speakers was not controllable with the volume and didn't matter what source you were in.

On the 990 in the 4 scenarios above, the "Channel Calibrate" for subwoofer only affected (2) when I had the input set for PL II Movie. It did nothing for Stereo or Upsample. Since I can't calibrate the Stereo or Upsample, the sub calibration tone is worthless - whatever my PL II is calibrated for, the Stereo and Upsample will be + or - the dB that the sub Channel Calibrate is set for.

SVS recommends that I set my first sub for 1/3 on the volume knob and set the sub Channel Calibrate for 1/3 from the bottom - which in this case would be -10. Ron Stimpson from SVS says that this "...keeps the distortion to the sub amps low." I am then supposed to equalize that first sub to 75dB to match with the mains. Then I turn on the second sub and tweak the volume on it until I get +6db (twice as loud as the first sub). I like running the combined output +6dB hot so that's perfect.

The problem is that if my subs in the PL II mode (the only one that the Channel Calibrate works with) are at 81dB on the SPL with the Channel Calibrate at -10db then when I switch to Stereo or Upsample mode they will be 10dB hotter than 81dB and actually at 91dB!

So what I'm getting at here is that any input in Stereo or Upsample mode needs to have its sub SPL calibrated by the volume knobs on the sub amp because it can't be adjusted by the Channel Calibration on the 990.

Am I missing something here?

AndrewS,

Yes, upsample will upsample the L/R channels.

I calibrated my 990 from the DVD input first with PL2X. Then, I put a CD in the DVD player and switched the 990 to Upsample and used the 2-channel offset to knock the sub down a few dB as I like my movie bass a little heavier than 2-channel.

When I had dual SVS subs in my configuration. I sent the signal to both of them simultaneously and then used the SPL meter to adjust the combined level of the subs to 75dB. The way I understand you are doing it is going to set them way too hot. If one is at 75db and the other is a 75+6 (81db) and they are combined you will end up with about 85dB (10dB higher than all your other channels. Also, it is important to remeber that the Radio Shack SPL meter (I assume this is what you are using) is not very accurate at low frequencies and is normally on the low side of the lower frequencies. All this (if I am understanding your setup correctly) meaning your subs are set way too hot.

I am under the belief (from my own experimentation) that the PL2 setting will be the same loudness (subwise) when you switch to stereo mode. To tone down the sub in stereo mode, you can use the 2-channel offset as it is the only thing that will affect the sub level in 2-channel mode after it has originally set in PL2 mode. This is definately how it is working in my system, beyond that I am not sure what your issue is.

Regards!

Doug:

Actually what I did is calibrate the first sub with the second one off to 75dB. Then I turned the first one off and the second one on and calibrated it to 75dB. Then when I turned them both on, they should be approximately +6dB higher (twice as loud) or 81dB with both of them on. That means you're getting the correct benefit of the 2nd sub. You can then drop the Channel Calibration - Subwoofer down to calibrate the dual subs to your final desired SPL. I like mine +6dB hot because I've got a big, wierdly shaped main room. So now I'm calibrated.

The problem lies with the fact that the "Channel Calibrate - Subwoofer" on the 990 works for PL II but NOT for Stereo or Upsample. So if you leave the Channel Calibrate - Subwoofer at 0dB and adjust your sub volume, everything is fine.

The minute you adjust the Channel Calibrate - Subwoofer away from 0dB, the SPL of the subwoofer tone is now different between a PL II mode input and a Stereo/Upsample input. This is all with the 2CH Sub Offset at 0dB. If you had to drop the Subwoofer offset to -5dB for example to get it to be 75dB, when you switch to a Stereo or Upsample input, the SPL of that sub will be 80dB not 75dB.

That doesn't seem right to me.

Either I don't understand what you are syaing in your last paragraph, or I do not experience the same problem. In my set up (which is no different in respect to how the 990 controls sub volume) if I raise or lower the sub output when in PL2X it DOES effect the 2-channel as well and the sub volume is them same in either PL2X or Upsample modes. Only if I adjust the 2-channel offset down, is the sub at a different level in Upsample vs. PL2X mode. If I am understanding what you are saying properly, I wonder if something is flaky with your unit because what I believe youare saying does not sound right to me either.

To me the benefit of the 2nd sub was so that neither of them ever had to work too hard and I never had to worry about bottoming one out. Also, it would create a wider sweet spot for bass. My room is only 19 x 11.5 with 7 foot ceilings and I have found one sub is more than sufficient.

In my opinion this is how the 2nd sub should work. If you run it that much hotter, it is going to drown out the other channels and make everything a lot muddier (at least this is what happened in my system if I would set the pair of subs too hot).

How large is your room?

Have you tried the room with just one of the subs? If so, how did it sound with one balanced correctly?

Please let me know if I am misunderstanding in any way.

Doug:

Oh...also, I'm not using a RS SPL meter. I actually have a digital RS SPL meter that I had an EE friend solder some resistors and stuff into per an internet fix to get more accurate bass readings.

What I used for the above tests was a Behringer ECM8000 mic - basically ruler flat measuring response from 20Hz to 20kHz. It's hooked to my DEQ2496 which has an SPL meter.

Doug:

Here's what I tried. Set input Video 1 to Upsample and input Video 2 to PL II (or IIx if you have 7.1).

Get out of the menus and set the source as Video 2. Go back into the menus, go to Calibration and start your sub tone. Use an SPL meter to note the SPL's. Then move the calibration level for the sub up and down. Notice how the SPL's change?

Now get out of the menus, switch the input to Video 1 (Upsample). Go back into the menus and go to Calibration. When I move the calibration level for the subwoofer, the SPL's don't change at all. I can move the sub level in the cal menu to -15 or +15 and the actual SPL's of the sub in this input with Upsample do not change 1dB.

Could you test this with yours and see if it does the same thing? I'd be interested to see if yours works as expected - i.e. the sub calibration level works on all digital inputs no matter what the "surround mode" for that input is

I already know that mine does this same thing without testing as I have experienced this. The only way to adjust the Upsample or any other stereo mode is with the 2-channel offset. You should be able to measure a difference when using this to adjust the sub level in Upsample mode.

I figure Outlaw designed it like this due to the fact that most people seem to like more kick to movies, but then want to be able to back it off for music (I belong to this club).

I think we are on the same page now. Let me know if I can help any other way as I used to have a very similar sub setup.

Doug:

The problem is that if Outlaw designed it this way, it is opposite to what you are describing. My sub offset is never positive and has always been negative - like -5dB to -8dB. That means that the Stereo and Upsample will run HOTTER than the sub by 5 to 8 db and make them louder.

I agree that we should run 2-channel music quieter. The 2CH Offset for the sub only goes to -6dB.

That means that if I want to equalize my sub and it results in a -8dB offset for the sub, the Stereo and Upsample will run 8dB louder than the sub - even if I enable the 2CH Offset for the sub, the Stereo and Upsample will be 2dB HOTTER than the sub.

It still doesn't make sense why this works this way. The sub offset should be global for any input that utilizes the crossover.