It is not possible to have a positive 2-channel offset. If the 2-channel offset is set to -5db it will be 5db quieter than the PL2X setting. What you are saying sounds exactly opposite of this and does not make sense to me. The offset should go all the way to -8dB on the 990 and -6dB on the 970.

Maybe someone else can chime in and tell us were both wrong

Doug:

One of two things should happen...
1) Outlaw should make the firmware so that the sub offset works on the stuff below the crossover no matter WHAT the surround input. This is the way every other pre/pro I've ever used performs - the sub offset is GLOBAL on the digital inputs no matter what the surround mode. The way Outlaw has implemented this is just wierd. The 2CH Offset seems to work correctly because you might want your 2CH stuff to be up to -8dB quieter than 5.1 HT but the fact that the sub offset is not applied to 2CH on Stereo and Upsample seems like an oversight or "undocumented feature" that we are being told is correct operation. My point is that this is not how the sub offset should work. It's confusing and not well implemented.

or

2) The 2Ch Offset should go to -25dB. This is only a hack fix so that if I have to set the sub offset to -15dB, I can still set the 2Ch Offset to something lower than 5.1 for 2CH music.

If the sub manufacturer wants me to run the sub offset at -10dB and set the gains on the amp so I'm at 75dB, when I go to 2 channel, even with the 2CH Offset at -8dB, I'm still going to be 2dB hotter on the 2 channel. I agree that 2 channel should not be HOTTER than 5.1 for HT. That's my issue here.

I just don't believe that this sub offset behavior is correct behavior. I understand that the way it works now is how it was implemented on the 990 - that it is not a bug per se. But it is not correct sub offset behavior...basing this on every other Receiver and Pre/Pro that I've ever had.

This is very confusing to explain - here's another try...

The 2Channel Offset makes perfect sense IF the sub offset applies to all surround modes. If you calibrate your sub, the calibration should apply to every surround mode on a digital input - Stereo and Upsample included. That way if you want to run your sub a little hot for all your surround modes, you can drop it for 2Ch up to -8dB.

But because the sub offset does not globally apply, you can't really use the 990 sub offset to calibrate your SPL's on your sub - especially if you're equalizing your sub. If I go balanced out from the sub output, through the DEQ2496 and to my SVS, I've got to have the sub offset at -15dB and the volume on the sub amps really close to zero.

Where this doesn't work for me is that if I leave the 2Ch offset at 0, my sub is now +15dB hotter on Stereo and Upsample than on PL II. Even if I drop the 2Ch offset to -8, my sub is STILL 7dB hotter for 2Ch music - and I want it to be LOWER.

So what this REALLY means is that the sub offset settings from -8dB to -15dB are completely useless and shouldn't even be an option because if I have to use any of those offsets to get my sub SPL correct, I can't get the 2Ch music SPL even EQUAL to the PL II SPL. If I have to select -8dB to -15dB sub offset, my sub SPL will always be higher than my PL II offset where I really want it 4-5dB LOWER.

This is really difficult to explain but it just seems like the sub offset not applying to the Stereo and Upsample modes is an oversight and should be fixed.