I've been using a Denon AVR-2803 as my pre/pro connected to a Krell KAV-500 amp for some time now. In a little while, I'll be going straight separates, and I'm considering the 990. What will I be losing or gaining in terms of fidelity compared to the Rotel RSP-1068 or Adcom GTP-880? Your thoughts/experiences are more welcome.

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My System
Hitachi 51S700 Rear Proj TV
Denon DVD-2900 II DVD Player
Denon AVR-2803 Receiver (Pre/Pro)
Outlaw ICBM Bass Mgmt System
Krell KAV-500 5Ch Amplifier
SVS 20-39CS (Passive Sub)
Parasound HCA-2003 Amp (1ch used for sub)
Dish DVR-942 (HD/DVR Receiver)
Von Schweikert VR-2000 (L/R Spkrs)
Von Schweikert LCR-20 (Ctr Spkr)
PSB Century 400i (Rear Surr Spkrs)
Outlaw PCA Interconnects (Analog)
Analyst Plus Interconnects (Digital)
Monster M2.2 Speaker Cables

I haven't heard the Adcom, but I have heard the Rotel (a co-worker owns one, and I helped him set it up - the local dealer left him totally unprepared, and the manual is an organizational nightmare). Both my wife and I preferred our old Model 950 to the Rotel sonically (for what it's worth, the Rotel system was using a Rotel amp and B&W Nautilus speakers while we use Outlaw amplification and Paradigm Reference speakers). Considering the upgrade that the 990 presented over the 950, I suspect that a head-to-head comparison between 1068 and 990 would come out in the 990's favor.

gonk,

Thanks for your .02.

I'm in favor of a warmer sound rather than an analytical sound, would the 990 better siut my needs?

Then again, just to keep things fair and in perspective...
Gonk listened to the Rotel in another room with totally different sonic signature.

I would be curious of his impressions both compared in the same room as the room adds the biggest impact to what you ultimately hear.

To me, in MY room, the 990 is neither warm nor analytical, but neutral and the best I've ever heard.

An excellent point, braidkid - my experiences were based on that system (the Rotel pre+amp, B&W speakers, HD cable box and Sony DVD player, and older Meridian CD player in somebody else's house) as compared to my system (at the time an Outlaw 950, Outlaw amps, Paradigm Reference speakers, and an assortment of source components in my den). It would be curious to swap out my 990 for the Rotel in my system to compare the two, although the two hours of re-wiring in my entertainment center that would bookend the test and the time to rip the unit out of Phil's equipment rack make that test unlikely.

My experience with the 990 has also lended itself toward a neutral/transparent nature, which I like. It's probably easiest to select for warm/bright preferences when purchasing speakers, so "colorless" electronics have always been a positive to me.

FWIW, I demo'd a RSP-1066, RSP-1068 and Model 950 in my room and the 950 won HANDS DOWN. Both Rotel units sounded much too bright. I spent days with all these units and ended up keeping the 950. (Then upgraded to 990.) All this through the same Rotel amp and B&W speakers. Granted, it wasn't a double blind test, but the difference was plain enough to my wife and me. (and she really doesn't even care about this stuff... she' a true bass junky)


later,
simp

Gonk, you're right in saying that speakers, cables are responsible for warmth/brightness. As such, I believe that I do get that from my Von Schweikerts. That being so, would lean towards electronics that is neutral. Brightness can sometimes be mistaken for transparency. However, what I certainly don't want from my electronics is that spitty, hard leading edge sound you get from what I term analytical electronics.
If by transparency you mean clean, clear polished hihgs with luster, then I'm for that.


sraber,
That's very encouraging information. Thanks

BTW:Overkast and I (Demus) are one and the same. I registered at work and didn't jot down my password. Sorry for the confusion, if any.

I've heard all 3, albeit on different systems on different occasions. I'd rank them like this:

1. 990 hands down the best
2. Rotel (average)
3. Adcom (disappointing)

That's just from a sitting down with my eyes closed and listening to familiar audio/video tracks standpoint. It pays zero attention to features, though I feel the 990 feature set is pretty strong.

Cheers,

I think it's far more accurate to say that you preferred the Paradigm Reference speakers to B&W Nautilus speakers. The difference in the speakers would totally and thoroughly overwhelm any possible different you'd get from the electronics.

I have both units,the 990 is very analytical,too much maybe for my taste.The 1068 is smoother to my ears and I prefer the sound for music,far from average.With speakers that are laid back 990,with speakers that are forward 1068.Control wise the 1068 wins hands down,much more flexable set up.There's nothing bad about the 990 sound,its all personal taste.I'm still on the fence but leaning.In the 990's favor its very quiet,I do like that.

That's very possible, especially since I didn't get to hear the Nautiluses with the previous electronics (older Spectral gear) to know if there were similarities. I haven't noticed the same sort of harshness from other B&W's (older B&W's used temporarily in my den), but even that doesn't rule out the B&W's as a significant contributor.

If it's of any use to you, I don't think this was mentioned but the 990 has balanced outputs as well as unbalanced rca's. For me that's a big perk because I can use pro amplifiers plus avoid ground loop/hum issues. While I've not heard the Rotel or the Adcom, the 990 seems neutral here. Also the 990 has more optical inputs and DVI Switching, something else the Rotel lacked.

Gonk, I'm very familiar with the B&W Nautilus sound and think it's likely the Rotel amp / Nautilis combo that you were hearing. When I upgraded amplification to my N804 speakers going from a Rotel power amp to the Pass Labs Aleph 30 it made a world of difference. The sound became very musical and lost all sense of "harshness". I also use a tube pre-amp for two channel but have the 990 on the way and can do some critical evaluations of it with the N804's when it comes in.

Ed:

Please quantify "forward" and "laid back" sounding speakers. You lost me. I'm glad you like the Rotel, but I can't imagine in what universe someone would think it "sounded better" than the 990. But hey, I guess one man's "there's a veil over the music" is another man's "I like the speakers more laid back." Go figure.

Cheers,

I always thought of all the "audiospeak"terminology forward or laid back were the clearest but...My interpretation is Forward=more upfront,presence,in your face,revealing.Laid back=less upfront,less presence,not in your face,less revealing.Anything more than that use your imagination.

I'm glad I like the Rotel also,I'd be even happier if I liked the 990 better since its got some features I like and its cheaper.

I'm not sure of the name of my universe but you listen in yours and I'll listen in mine,ok.

Almost last but not least,I just gave my input to the original post,I did not tell anyone if they don't hear like me they're from another unuverse.

Last but not least explain to me why if someone does not hear what you think they should thats bad?We all see this alot on forums and it never ceases to amaze me that some are so arrogant they presume their ears should be held in more regard.
Now would it not sound dumb if I say,ok,forget my ears I trust somebody else's ears more than mine.Everyone do your own audition and draw your own conclusions is the best advise I have.

Not a Fan Boy,just a fan.

EZ

Heh. I don't think I referred to your choice as "bad." I simply don't understand it. Hope you're enjoying your universe as much as I'm enjoying mine.

Cheers,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Zeppelin:

I'm not sure of the name of my universe but you listen in yours and I'll listen in mine,ok.

I'm just gonna stick to listening in my galaxy for now. I don't have time for other galaxies, let alone the whole universe.

Gonk, I'd be interested to hear how the 950 stacks up against the 990 strictly from a performance, and not features, standpoint.

How it compares with analog by pass for SACD and with digital inputs for DD, DTS, etc.

You can find my comments on the 990's audio performance here , but the short answer is that the 990 is a very enjoyable step up from the 950. The better DACs have left me using the analog inputs very rarely, performance on DVD's is improved, and performance on CD's benefits even more. Multichannel analog input probably saw the least change, but even with the 990 applying digital bass management (with an A/D/A process added) the performance is still transparent. My Yamaha universal player's SACD performance is still sub-optimal, I believe, but the 990 isn't detracting from the experience any.

Thanks for the response, exactly what I was looking for. I didn't figure the 7.1 analog input would be any better, and thought they might even be worse. Not sure if you can really take that digital crossover completely out of line. Anyhow, I think they should be there for SACD/DVDA anyhow. The processors DAC should handle the rest. If they would just make a digital output for these formats we wouldn't have to worry about, but for now we're going to have to pay for good quality DAC's in our DVDP's and processors.

BTW, my I have a Sony NS DVP999ES. It doesn a really fantastic job with SACD and is very good for video as well. Red book CD is another story.

I think I will pull the trigger and get the 990 in a few weeks!!! However, to take advantage of the DVI In/Outs, I am looking to change/upgrade my DVD player to one that has a DVD/HDMI output. However, it must be a Universal DVD-A/SACD player. Here, I'll need some direction or rather recommendation(s) on what's hot and what' not. Also, I thinking of selling my SVS 20-39cs passive sub for the LFM-1. There I can sell both the SVS and Parasound HCA-2003 to offset some cost.

Thanks everyone, for your advice and observations regardless of Galaxy or Universe.

Anxious to here your comments and or critique here on planet Earth.

This one should be easy - for a DVI out DVD player get the Oppo 971H DVD. It upconverts over DVI to 720p and 1080i. Absolutely stunning picture on my Infocus 4805. No layer switch time at all. If it's something you look at, it currently resides at the top of the "Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity" DVD Shootout charts. This measures compatibility, chroma, layer changes and not really picture quality per se - but the Oppo finished above the ENTIRE Denon line including their flagship the DVD-5910.

The player is firmware upgradeable too - and Oppo has been fixing all kinds of things in response to feedback. Has a Faroudja deinterlacer in it also if you look for that.

It'll set you back $200.

oppodigital.com

The Oppo is a great player, although it is not a universal player and I've heard that it's DVD-Audio performance is only average. I'm using one for DVD-Video and an extremely satisfied with it, but I kept my Yamaha S1500 for DVD-Audio and SACD.

gonk/AndrewS

Are you suggesting that I get the Oppo for DVD-Video use only and keep the Denon for DVD-A/SACD and CD duty? Hmmm, that doesn't seem like too bad an idea.

That's what I'd suggest since you already have a good player for high-res audio - it's worked out nicely for me.

Again, thanks all for you help and insight

Yep - I second Gonk's recommendation. Finding a good universal player that excels in all areas is pretty much impossible. Find a good DVD-A/SACD player (you already have one and seem happy with it) and find a good DVD-Video player.

The Oppo certainly fits the bill of good DVD-Video and if you just get the Oppo you've definitely saved money over having to go to a higher end Denon Universal device to get your DVI and DVD-A/SACD.

Don't forget if you get the Oppo to check its firmware when you get it and update it to the latest if necessary. Makes a big difference.

Yep!! I already downloaded the firmware update and instructions. Awaiting delivery...

Next step....990. I'll keep y'all posted.

I think that'll be a nice combination for you - I've certainly been enjoying both my 990 and my Oppo. (That reminds me... Need to get a couple co-workers by the house at lunch one day soon to check out the Rush R30 DVD... )

How does the DD 5.1 track of R30 sound through the 990? This is kind of silly, but the terrible fatiguing sound I get from my Rotel 1066 on this DVD is the reason I'm looking to replace it. For movies it sounds great, but for music it's not so great.

I thought it was a great surround music mix. I can see how Geddy Lee's voice could make a system that tended toward harshness get fatiguing, but I never felt fatigue on this disc. It looks like I'll be taking at least two folks by the house to listen to it one day next week, and I'll let you know their reactions as well.

Rush R30 is a very poor recording/mix from the audio side,from Emerson TO Krell,nothin can help that.Of course as to sound thats just my opinion.Rush has had recording issues for some years,even studio.There is a site somewhere but I forget where that tested several later Rush cd's and the actual recording were clipping very badly.I am a big Rush fan,2112 remaster is outstanding on the 990.

Rush hasn't had a decent studio recording in 20 years.

Ok, what is a DAC? How many do I need, where can I get them, do they come in colors? (lol!!!) Why do I need it/them?

Yes, I am serious about all of the above with the exception of the colors thingie...lol.

Paladin

http://www.audioc.com/library1/glossary.htm

DAC: A Digital to Audio Converter. Converts a digital bitstream to an analog signal. Can be a separate "box" that connects between a CD Transport or CD Player and a pre-amplifier.

Bugbitten, I think you mean Digital to Analog Converter, as your correct definition suggests. (I've made the same mistake more than once when talking about equipment.)