My primary audio use (opposed to HT) would be in 2 channel bypass mode in order to use my L/R+sub for music listening.

My sub is powered but afaik has no innate ability to set a crossover - that is done currently in my (Onkyo) receiver.

I want to send 2 ch. analog to the 990 from my outboard non-os DAC, and I don't want the signal processed or upsampled in any way, just amplified and sent to the speakers. My understanding is that's what bypass mode is for. Is that correct?

If so, it also seems that I'd be affected by this BM issue until the software is fixed not to send a full-range signal to the subwoofer in 2 ch. analog bypass mode? Is that correct?

Thanks for any input/help!

Joncourage,

Outlaw told me the full range sub signal in analog bypass was an intentional design with speakers set to small. Because of that, I am not sure they consider this a bug. I don't think anyone (except Outlaw) knows whether this will be addressed or changed for bypass users. They must, however, address the stereo and upsample modes. In these modes bass management using crossovers is intentional & expected...and currently not working. With a full range sub signal currently being produced on all analog modes, you would need an internal crossover on your sub to defeat it.

My understanding of the analog bypass mode and the sub getting a full-range signal is that bypass mode by definition bypasses all sections of the unit that could apply any bass management. For those people who have analog bypass engaged with speakers that are full-range, bass management is not needed - thus they already have their speakers set to large. For most people, the mains are not truly capable of that (particularly if you are running bookshelf speakers that may start rolling off around 60Hz or above), and bypass will leave them a bit bass deprived. The solution apparently was to sum a copy of the left and right analog signals and pass it to the sub when the mains were set to small and analog bypass was enabled - which, in the absence of any A/D conversion to allow for digital bass management, was pretty much the only way to deliver anything to the sub. That's my understanding as to why the small speaker/full range sub signal in analog bypass is an intentional design decision. As you say, of course, this behavior is avoidable in other modes.

If I may just chime in here...

I think my question (the one that started this thread) has been answered, if indirectly.

That is, plowing through this thread just reinforces (to me anyway) that a thoroughgly documented summary of the bass management in tabular (or other) form would indeed be a good thing.

Mark

Thanks Capt. and gonk.

Gonk - what you've said would seem to make sense to me (limited understanding that I may have).

If BM is achieved only with digital signal processing, then it makes sense that in analog bypass mode - when I believe one of the primary intentions is to have a non-digitized, analog signal straight to the amp/speakers - then determining what part of the signal goes to the sub would seem not do-able. Hence the need for a sub that itself has a configurable crossover (didn't realize that existed, and my current sub certainly can't do that, so looks like I'll have to factor the cost of a new sub into the purchase of a 990 if I went this route, since I do not currently have full-range speakers, and as stated my primary use for audio would be analog-bypass in order to use my non-OS DAC).

If you guys have had the patience to read through all that, please let me know if my understaning is correct. Advice on how to proceed wouldn't hurt any either, since my developing understanding inclines me to think this isn't an "outlaw-only" issue, but that I'll find the same anywhere I look (a basic technology issue?).

Any chance someone from Outlaw can chime in on that?

Thanks!

Your understanding matches mine, at least. Is your sub powered, or do you have a separate amp driving it? Generally powered subs include a low-pass crossover that would work well for these purposes. There are external products that will do it, too, such as the Outlaw ICBM (which provides 6.1 analog bass management) and the Paradigm X-30 (better suited to this case), but it may not be necessary.

Thanks.

So if your subwoofer has it's own crossover, I take it you can set that where you want it, and even though it's getting a full-copy signal of the L/R channels, the sub will only reproduce the frequencies below the crossover point you've set? (I'm learnin', I think...

If that's the case, then the analog bypass issue of copying a full-range signal to the sub probably isn't that big of a deal to those with configurable sub-woofers, I'd think.

The only thing that seems to get some conflicting info then is whether the analog bypass signal is digitized (and processed by the 990's internal DACs). Since I want to use my outboard non-OS DAC this is important to me.

Anyone clear on that?

That's right - you can simply set the crossover as high as it goes so that it filters out the high frequencies and lets all the low stuff through.

The times that an analog source is digitized are when it is a stereo input that is not in bypass mode or when it is a 7.1 direct input and the 990's speakers are set to large.

EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!

As I've said before, this issue with BM has been blown way out of proportion. It is sad when this concern has been spread to other forums discouraging prospective buyers who would not be affected.

The only real issue I have with BM is the fact you cannot disengage BM during 7.1 playback without setting speakers to Large. I'm sure this will be corrected in the upcoming update.

Some of you guys are missing the point. The bypass mode was designed that way, the "Stereo" and "upsample" modes were not. There have been multiple confirmations that the sub signal is full range on Stereo and upsample modes which makes the bass management completely useless for any analog input for those using a subwoofer, not just those who want to use bypass.

If that is not a big deal on a piece of audio equipment costing over a thousand dollars, I don't know what it would take for you guys to say what a big deal would be.

As to using the subs crossover...if the digital inputs are correctly bass managed, then every time you switch from a digital input to an analog input you must get up and change the subwoofer crossover to avoid cascading crossovers. One input sends one signal range and another sends a different one.

How many potential buyers have a subwoofer and want to use the CD analog inputs...or any analog input for that matter? My guess is quite a few. Those potential buyers deserve to know the 990 WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH what it states it will do. If anyone thinks it's a shame that they find out about this before they buy it, well then...that's just plain mean.