I agree.

Given the number of extremely knowledgeable users available to you via this forum, are you also considering using their resources as beta testers for this software release?

Invariably the wider range of equipment and settings available to these users will cover ground that your lab testing will not.

Updates are most certainly beta tested externally for precisely this reason.

Best,

Scott

Scott and company already know that my 990 is available as a test rig for new firmware, and I'm sure there are others - they may not use all of us, but some of us will probably be asked to poke around at whatever patches come out of all this. I suspect that they'll keep the patch testing fairly quiet (don't want to get us all eagerly anticipating a new patch if it isn't ready for prime time), but in the past they've done some good external testing. Jump back to 2002 and the hiss problems experienced by some users with the early Model 950's - the most notable problems were reported by soundhound (probably due in large part to his insanely efficient horn speakers), and both development and testing of revisions included him.

I also agree with not rushing the fix. Lets get it right.

To Scott and all the Outlaws I want to say thank you for addressing the issue. While you stopped short of delivering a timeline , I respect the constraints you are working under and I am MUCH more comfortable allowing you to work this out while my trial period expires.

Just please...please don't take the subwoofer out of the mix in stereo analog or set the crossover points fixed at some ridiculously high level.

Thanks for your attention to this matter. By the way, if you need someone to volunteer to beta the upgrade before release... my hand is up!

The Capt.

Of course, some of use would prefer it exactly the opposite for stereo analog (ie no subwoofer please)

I suppose this goes to the heart of my other post where I suggested that knowledgeable users are happier having explicit control, rather than being frustrated by implicit control via loosely defined monikers (eg LR+sub) and speaker setting side-effects.

That, my friend, is what BYPASS should be for. But you see the implicit problem with those who MUST keep speakers set to small. There can be no true bypass with a global crossover relegating your speakers to small without an available crossover point set around 20 hz! This is where I think Outlaw ran into a hitch and solved it by sending a full range signal in bypass with small speaker settings. Odd solution to a vexing problem. Personally I don't care about bypass. I will accept digital manipulation to let my sub accompany my mains for CD analog listening . If one's ouboard DAC is a $10,000 gem, then I would guess bypass to be more of an issue...and the full range copy of the mains that goes with it an even bigger one.

Cool, a few weeks ago I hooked up my CD player to the CD inputs of my 990. I assume that is what you mean by analog input. I notice vocals, etc. out of my sub which I thought was strange. I was going to post something here when I got the chance to ask about this. It looks like this is the problem I was having. I also notice the music sounded muddy.

I have a few questions:

1. Is the muddy sound due to the overlap of the sub with the mains? I assume phase issues, etc.

2. The Capt stated that the crossover setting where incorrect i.e. 200Hz was 40Hz, etc. So what am I getting with the crossover set to 80Hz

3. Can I run the CD player into the 7.1 L and R inputs and have things work OK?

I was also wondering when a software release was going to make it out, and got that answered too.

Thanks

Chriso2,
The muddy sound is indeed the overlapping bass from the LR + sub reproducing the same signal with phase problems. The bass management is a scrambled egg mess inside the 990. Completely useless.

Regarding the crossover points: I was able to reproduce the reversed crossover (40 is 200) twice while testing with True RTA....and I tried it 5-6 times where I could not reproduce it (i.e 40 was 40). This is very concerning because it implies another as yet undiscovered "factor" that affects the behaviour of the crossover.

AS to running cd into the 7.1, I am not sure. Others here have posted that the 7.1 bass management and the digital bass management works as intended. I am not so sure it does. I also do not know how those inputs will recognize the signal. I am getting more and more convinced that the digital input crossovers are not working as well. My pioneer on digital out to the 990 playing a standard CD gave nearly identical response curves on True RTA as my analog input CD...that is to say it sent a full range to the sub on stereo & upsample.
I don't want to start another hornets nest so I have been refraining from posting that data. I am sure some people will disagree. I don't want a fight I just want it fixed.

Waiting for an update as well,

The Capt

Capt, when you ran your sweep using RTA, were your mains off? I find it surprising you had full range sub signal using digital input.

I have confirmed BM is applied when using 7.1 analog input.

My first post... please be kind

I'm planning to use the Outlaw 990 in a 7.1 home theater system with "large" front speakers and a seperate subwoofer (probably the SVS PB12-Ultra/2). I have been reading through all of the various threads on the bass management issue and I'm getting more confused instead of more enlightened. If someone could just answer this one question it would greatly ease my mind about making this purchase:

Will the Outlaw 990 work correctly with "large" fronts and a seperate sub in 7.1 mode?

I was all set to place my order until I stumbled across these threads. Any clarity that can be provided on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.