Hi All,

Just got my 990
Right now I'm just running 2ch and I have a few questions.

Should I be able to turn off all preamp outputs except L/R front? The only choices I get for the SR/SL size is Large/Small, "None" is not available. For SRB/SLB and Sub "None" is available. Front panel display always shows four speaker icons at a minimum.

From an audio viewpoint, are the analog inputs associated the with the Video 1-5 inputs the same as the "fixed" analog inputs ie. CD,Aux,etc? Yeah, I paid extra to get the "etc" input

I'm also experiencing the "Bass Boost" behavior when changing crossover freqs. This appears to be tied to how you cycle through the Sub setting.

L/R+Sub > None = Bass Boost with xover changes
L/R+Sub > LFE Only > None = No Bass Boost

It appears that I cannot use a sub with an analog input. I get full-range out of the sub. With a digital input it works as expected.

L/R size = small
Sub = L/R+Sub
Input = Analog
Surr Mode = Stereo

Output = Full-Range out of sub

Overall, the 990 sounds great and I really like the flexibilty. However, my confidence gets a little shake due to some of the apparently strange behavior. Kind of makes me wonder what else might not work as expected if I don't cycle through the menu choices in a certain way. Of course it may be my expectaions that are at fault

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks

q)Should I be able to turn off all preamp outputs except L/R front? The only choices I get for the SR/SL size is Large/Small, "None" is not available. For SRB/SLB and Sub "None" is available. Front panel display always shows four speaker icons at a minimum.
a) I don't know about manually turning them off. But, a stereo source will automatically cause them to turn off. For down mixing a 5.1 signal you could go into your DVD player's menu and set the output to PCM and that should do the trick. Also be certain to turn of PLIIx, and NEO surround modes, as they will turn the surround speakers back on automatically.

Thanks Eric,

I am feeding a pcm only signal and tried setting all inputs to bypass. Keep in mind I'm only running a 2.1 setup at this point, so there may not be any signal at the SR/SL output jacks even though the front panel display shows that the surrounds are enabled. Do you ever see less than four speaker icons on the front panel display.

Relative to the "full-range" signal coming from the sub, I spoke with Outlaw and was told this is by design because some people run full range speakers at all positions . However, these people would be out of luck when using a digital input because the xover works as expected then. Part of my problem is that I'm trying to use a "passive" sub because I thought I could rely on the bass management in the 990. So, if I understand correctly, in order to listen to an analog 2ch source, in stereo with a sub, I need to have an active sub and ensure that it's internal xover is set to the same freq as the 990. Does this sound right to you folks?

Thanks!

You should be able to turn off the surrounds, so I'm a little confused by that.

As for the sub behavior, you can count on the 990's crossovers to take care of things for you, but you may need to tweak your 990 settings a bit. Have you considered running mains as small and sub as "on" (or "yes", I forget what the exact term is). The L/R+Sub is a mode that I've always thought of as better suited to running with the mains large.

Hi gonk,

Yes, I would agree that I should be able to turn them off, that's why I am looking for confirmation that others have been able to turn them off as well, meaning only two speaker icons displayed on the front panel.

This is the setup I'm working with as noted above:

L/R size = small
Sub = L/R+Sub
Input = Analog
Surr Mode = Stereo

Output = Full-Range out of sub

The only choices I get for the sub are "none, L/R+Sub or LFE Only" I've never had "yes or on" as an option. Perhaps I need to try a "factory reset"

Thanks!

Something seems odd here, then. If your mains are set to small, then you should be able to choose "no" or "yes" for the sub (if "no" would even be an option then at all); if the mains are large, you should be able to choose "none", "L/R+sub", or "LFE only." For what you are trying to do, I'd recommend small mains and the sub on.

Unless I'm really missing something the only sub choices I've seen so far is "none, L/R + Sub or LFE only" regardless if my mains are set to large or small. It appears I have to turn the sub on before I can set the mains to small, at that time I only have the three choices noted above. However, I don't believe I've gone back to the sub menu after setting the mains to small, perhaps that's when the on/off (yes/no) choices appear.

Thanks!

OK a dumb question forgive me, would you verify the speaker active icons are illuminated ? There is a static icon for each speaker always present (when the speaker is set to ON), but under that static icon is another little indicator that actually says if the speaker is on or off according to the sound mode. You will see SL and SR illuminated and not just little rectangles when that channel is active.

On your question about does the cross over seem to work correctly by passsing full range sometimes yes and sometimes no, IMHO no - that implementation of a low pass filter is not correct. This should at least be documented in the manual since it's working as an as designed feature.

Eric A:

When I'm playing a 2ch source the only speaker active icons illuminated are L, R and Sub, which I believe is as it should be. My question was more about if I should be able to turn off the surround static icons altogether, which I thought I should be able to, leaving only the L, R and Sub static icons, but as I mentioned in my first post: With this setup:

Front L/R: Large
Center: None
Surr L/R: Large
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer: L/R + Sub

The only choice for Surr L/R is Large or Small
The only choice for Sub is None, L/R+Sub or LFE Only

With this:

Front L/R: Small
Center: None
Surr L/R: Small
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer: L/R + Sub

The only choice for Surr L/R is Small
The Sub is L/R+Sub or LFE Only, depending on which mode the sub was in before I switched the mains to small and it can't be changed.

Up until now, I've never seen the Sub switch to "Yes". Then I enabled the center channel and got this:

Front L/R: Small
Center: Small
Surr L/R: Small
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer: Yes

I thought Aha! the bass management should now work the way I thought it would. But unfortunately I still get a full range signal from the sub if I'm using a 2ch analog source in stereo mode. If I switch to any other surround mode except Bypass, Stereo or Upsample or use a digital input, then it works as expected with only the frequencies below the xover point being sent to the sub; But then I'm no longer listening to a simple stereo signal with a sub and analog input, which I don't believe is an unreasonable expectation.

I'll keep experimenting, but for the time being it still seems that if I want to listen to an analog 2ch source, in stereo with a sub, I will need to get an active sub with it's own xover and adjust it accordingly. If that is their design decision that's cool, you have to draw the line somewhere, it's just not what I expected from reading the manual before I made the purchase. Please refer to my previous quote

I guess there is no analog bass management. It doesn't say anywhere that there is, so I guess that means that there is not. I noticed that 1070 specifically states it has analog bass management.

A less expensive solution for your sub would be to use a crossover between the 990 and your amp. Here's a product that should do the trick for less the $100.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-664

One other option even less expensive - looks like the new 970 also supports analog bass management. At least under the analog specification section it states "bass management". That pre might offer a solution.

The 990 does not have analog bass management on the 7.1 input; the 950, 1070, and 970 have an option for an 80Hz analog crossover on the 5.1 or 7.1 input. A stereo analog input can get bass management with any of the above units.

The 990 absolutely should be able to provide you with all the bass management you need for a passive sub (I'll paste in some notes about the 990's bass management below, borrowed from my 990 review). The way things changed when a center was added sounds like a quirk/bug that I would suggest giving Outlaw a call about. With the center on, can you turn the surrounds off? If so, what does the sub do?

990 Bass Management Options:

• Digital Bass Management: This covers most sources, including any digital input and any stereo analog input that is not set to "bypass." These sources are processed exactly as you would expect. Small speakers have their signals rounted through the high pass and low pass crossovers as defined in the "SPEAKER X-OVER" menu, with the low frequency data redirected to the subwoofer. In the event that the subwoofer is disabled, the mains must be set to "large" and will receive the LFE channel and any redirected bass. Additionally, tone control and speaker time delays are applied by the DSP along with any requested or required surround mode processing.
• Bypass Mode with analog input: The 990 retains the ability to provide a bypass of all digital processing for stereo analog inputs. In this mode, the 990 skips all digital processing and passes the left and right signals directly through volume control and on to the amps. In a bit of homage to the Model 950, perhaps, the analog bypass offers bass management that behaves similarly to the 950's. The full range analog signals are sent to the speakers without alteration, and if the mains are set to "small" a copy of the signals is converted to digital and processed through the bass management to produce a subwoofer signal. As with the 950, if the mains are set to "large" the sub is not used. Because the DSP section is bypassed, tone control and time delay are not applied in either case.
• Bypass Mode with digital input: The "bypass" option is available for both analog and digital inputs, which at first glance struck me as odd. When bypass is used with a digital input, only the digital bass management is applied (high and low pass crossovers, if the mains are set to "small"). Tone control is bypassed, as is (obviously) any surround mode processing.
• 7.1 Direct analog input: Three years ago, the Model 950 offered a unique feature in its multichannel analog bass management. It had a switch that would enable or disable an 80Hz high pass filter on all five full range channel; a permanent low pass filter in each channel routed low frequency data to the subwoofer. The Model 1070 receiver has been shown to possess a similar switch, although full details on how that switch will behave are not yet available. The Model 990 lacks such a switch, opting instead for a different approach. By default, it converts the data to digital and applies the full digital bass management settings. If all speakers are set to large, no bass management is applied and the signals are left in the analog domain all the way through the unit. Either way, the DSP section is bypassed (similar to the bypass mode for digital inputs), resulting in tone control and time delay not being applied.

Hi gonk,

With the center enabled I can turn the surrounds off, but the subwoofer changes from "yes" to L/R+Sub. I'm not sure if the other sub choices are also available, I'll check tonight.

Yes, bullet number two sounds like it should do what I want, I haven't thouroughly investigated what happens with the sub when setting the surround mode to bypass because I was under the impression there was no additional processing in that mode. I'll check it out.

What do you find out of the ordinary relative to the way things changed when I enabled the center channel?

Well, when you turned the center on your sub choices started behaving as they should - I was wondering if they would stay that way when the surrounds were turned off.

Cool -- Nice work on the review. So the only question is why doesn't it work that way now ?

Merlin said "Relative to the full-range signal coming from the sub, I spoke with Outlaw and was told this is by design because some people run full range ".

Wonder where the confusion comes from on this, as clearly you tried it and it worked fine. Now, it seems to be working differently. Maybe some seeming unrelated setting it causing an issue.

With this setup:

Front L/R: Small
Center: Small
Surr L/R: Small
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer: Yes

I set the surround mode to Bypass and still got full-range out of the sub.

gonk,

I'm trying to determine if my system is acting different from yours.

When you have your setup as above, do you get any choices for Subwoofer other than "Yes"?

When you have either of the following setups:

Front L/R: Small
Center: None
Surr L/R: Small
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer:

OR

Front L/R: Small
Center: Small
Surr L/R: None
Surr Back L/R: None
Subwoofer:

Can you change the subwoofer mode?

I'm assuming you use a powered sub with it's own internal xover. If so, is it possible to bypass the sub's internal xover, then try playing an analog 2ch source with the surround mode set to stereo.

Thanks!

My powered sub actually already has the internal crossover bypassed, and while I don't regularly listen to any analog sources I have used them on occasion without any full-range to the sub. On the other hand, I've got the 990 set up as a 7.1 system. I'm getting the same issue you are with subwoofer settings when either center or surrounds are off, but I didn't have a chance to try leaving it in that state and playing an analog source. I've got a green building meeting tonight after work, but I'll try to do a comparison between my current arrangement (7.1) and your setup with an analog source in stereo mode.

Gonk:

How about showing what a great Outlaw you really are and suggest a green power button for the "green" building.

Are you doing LEED stuff?

- Now there's an idea.

Yeah, there's a local LEED group getting put together and I'm the mechanical engineer in-house with the most LEED experience so I've been tapped to get LEED certified.