not a big deal to me but,why doesn't the 770 amp have balanced inputs?

The Model 770 was originallly released in 2002, when nothing in Outlaw's product line included balanced inputs or outputs.

Rumour has it that Outlaw is about to release a successor to their current lineup of multi-channel 200w/channel amps that will include balanced inputs. Of course, that's all just rumour and heresay. You could call Outlaw directly to find out what their official line is. 8-)

thanks,just one more ?
in the past ATI made amps for outlaw,does ATI still make the amp?

I believe that Outlaw's multichannel amps are still coming out of that partnership. The monoblocks (the discontinued Model 200 and the new Model 2200) are not, however.

Were the amps "made by ATI" or do they simply share a production facility? That was never really clear to me. If the amps are "ATI amps" then I wonder how ATI justifies the rather large price delta to their customers?

That brings up another question....Does Outlaw design any of their equipment? The LFM-1 is done by Hsu, the 990 is done by Sherwood, some of the amplifiers are done by ATI, etc. I'm not really complaining since I like the equipment, but the marketing copy from Outlaw gives the impression that their gear is designed in house.

Cheers,

I think the easiest way to describe what it appears that the Outlaws do is to say is that is seems that design products in the sense of setting out the feature set, performance specs and key components on the hardware side. I don't think they have every claimed that they do the "down and dirty" job of creating schematics and doing board layouts. That's done by their ODMs.

On the hardware side, Outlaw has been very vocal about saying that in the case of the software it is a different story. There, they do seem to actually design the menu systems and software flow, and have said as much. All you need to do is compare the 990 to the Sherwood P-965 to see that the software is different.

Also, remember that in some cases, they have unique products such as their original Model 1050 receiver, the ICBM and their cables. Since no one else has those, regardless of who made them, the Outlaws have had to had more than a subtle hand in the design. More recently, both the new Model 1070 and their hopefully soon to arrive RR 2150 are Outlaw-only.

So if I buy a new Audi and then go to Joe's Tuner Shop and buy a new retuned ECU (new software), to increase engine output, does that mean I'm no longer driving an Audi?

I'm not knocking Outlaw. As I said, I'm happy with my equipment. I'm also very happy with their service. I had an amp failure in one of my LFM-1's recently and they were Johnny-on-the-spot with a replacement with no quibbling. I just find it interesting that except for a few items, their products are actually designed/produced by other companies. Perhaps I'm just dense, but the feeling I get when reading their ad copy is that these products are produced by Outlaw. Just an observation, not really a criticism.

Cheers,

I've kicked this around a bit with Outlaw on an occasion or two, and while even those conversations aren't enough to make me particularly knowedgeable in the field of consumer electronics design and manufacturing I can at least tell you what my understanding of it is.

Outlaw's staff includes some folks with a background in design, but the company is too small to have a full-blown design staff capable of taking amps, processors, receivers, and whatnot from blank page to finished design. Instead they have a team of folks who are active in the design process, and that group teams up with a company that has the manufacturing capability and the design staff to manufacture and to help fill out the design team. The Model 990, for example, took the Sherwood chassis and modified it heavily - it's still an Etronics product from the standpoint of that's the factory where it was made, but it was made from a design that Outlaw helped refine and so deserves to be thought of as an Outlaw product. I think it's accurate to carry the same reasoning over to the amps.

It's worth noting as well that there is a good deal of this happening throughout the consumer electronics industry (especially once you look away from the giants like Sony or Panasonic). Look at all the 950 clones (Sherbourn, Atlantic Technology, and even the Fosgate FAP-T1) and the clones of the Sunfire Theater Grand (Emotiva DMC-1), for example, and that's not even counting what factories manufacture for what companies (Outlaw alone works with ATI, Etronics, Eastech, and at least a couple or three more). As far as I've been able to tell, though, Outlaw has consistently either overseen the development of a product from scratch (Model 1050, 950, 1070) or taken an existing platform and modified it to suit their purposes (Model 990) rather than just re-badging something and walking away.

Ritz:

There are more than a few Audi (OK, and Audi-o) fans amongst the Outlaws, so you've raised something interesting.

THink about the difference between the New Beatle and the TT, the A8 and the Phaeton, and the A4 and the Passat. SOme of the design is VW's, some is Audi's, some is in only one brand's product, some in others.

In the case of the Outlaws, they look at what they need in product and then see if they need to do something totally from scratch (as with ICBM, 1050, 1070 and RR 2150), take something from a company's line and do a major re-fit, as with the 990, or, go to an ODM with their concept, major component selections and software process and have them do the "heavy lifting" to put it together, as was the case with the 950.

No matter which way you slice, it, the Outlaws were clearly involved in the design and development of all of these products; it's just the starting point and full degree of engagement that varies.

Interesting topic line. I actually own an Audi, a 990 and design consumer electronics. I can't speak for Outlaw but from my own experience the basic "chassis", be it a car, or preamp, or a medical device for home use, can be a common platform of hardware and software. Then additional hardware gets added, changed or removed, and software gets added changed or removed. Much the same with cars or PC's. So while the fundamentals are the same, the final product ends up being very different. But it may still all be made in the same factory. A similar example would be Dewalt and Black & Decker.

This is NOT the same however as an OEM simply rebranding products, much like store brands where no changes other than cosmetic are done.

Having designed some prodcuts from scratch I can say it is cost prohibitive in most cases, unless the market is brand new (i.e. no competition, or revolutionary product) or extremely large selling millions of units per year. Look to the other High End manufacturers who do design and build their own from scratch and that's why they are so expensive. I would love to deisgn a cost no object product. But too often its I need it now, I need it to sell cheap, and I don't have any development dollars.

I have had my 990 for only a week and so far I love it. To me Outlaw is similar to what Adcom was in the late 80's. Great products at a reasonable price giving excellent value per dollar. However they do it work for me as a consumer. Although I would love to have input on some of their design meetings!

Gband,

Well, I'll have to introduce you to the 440hp family dragster, my 2.7T A6. 8-)

I had my Adcom stage a few years ago (loved the GFA-5802) and am now pretty happy with the Outlaw gear. My questions weren't designed as a criticism, but more of an exercise in trying to wrap my brain around Outlaw's role in the process of getting item X from drawing board to living room.

Cheers,

Ritz,

Oh I didn't take it as criticism, I was just throwing in my 2 cents worth. I also have a 2.7T, had it for 5 years and still love it. I haven't had the chance to chip it yet.

I still like my Adcom 555II amplifiers, but I am in the process of selling my preamp as I no longer need it with the 990. I think I may upgrade to Outlaw amps when the new ones come out.

i've got a denon cd changer that's actually a jvc,when it went in for service last time i asked the tech if it was true,after 10 seconds of stuttering and stammering he said no.hence confirming what my source told me.it's a jvc.

i think quite a few companies have been doing this for a long time(not just in audio),monitor audio years ago used b & w drivers....shelby used a ford motor,but it's not a ford cobra.

learned a little about audio and cars in one thread,where else can you get that kind of info?

anyway,my 990 is gonna be here in a few hours or less and i have to wait for the amp that will come on halloween.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN!

just poped in to say that i am so happy with my new outlaw rig.

i never had anything (HT) that sounds so great! i'll never buy an integrated amp processor AVReceiver ever again, i'll stick with pre/pros and amps forever.
i hope OUTLAW will be here forever.you have a costumer for life!

thank you.

i am a new outlaw and glad to be one, no one mentioned the 2200 blocks how about these amps. whats the history of these m-block amps, i know they evolved from the 200.