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#56114 - 10/30/05 07:48 AM Re: Phono performance
SirAnthony Offline
Deputy Gunslinger

Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 8
Loc: California
Don't dump that vinyl! Vinyl is superior to CD's and even SACD. You digital guys have lost the music. You have no idea what you are missing! I'm serious. Go to the audioasylum. Check out the vinyl forum.

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#56115 - 10/31/05 05:26 PM Re: Phono performance
justhavingfun Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Lansing, KS
I am still playing my LPs in my other two channel music system with Musical Fidelity phono stage. This thread makes me want to give my 990 phono sound a try. I am using Rega Planar 3 turntable with Blue Point Special cartridge for several years now. Compare to my CD counterpart, the LPs sound much better to me but what a pain to keep clean those LPs every time I give it a spin. For a convenience, you can't beat the CD based system but I still prefer vinyls sound over CD for pure listening pleasure minus inconvenience, of course. So like SirAnthony said, don't dump the vinyls but rekindle yourself with the sweet sound of vinyls.

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#56116 - 11/01/05 02:47 PM Re: Phono performance
jmartin Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA, USA
Yes, well recorded vinyl sounds better than red book CD. I use a Dual 1219, with a Shure cartridge. BUT well done SACD and DVD Audio sounds as good to my ear, and if recorded properly for surround sound (i.e. Naxos DVD A, Vilvaldi, Davie Juritz and the London Mozart Players: The Four Seasons & Concertos for Double Orchestra, RV 582 & RV 581), is mind boggling.

The problem with vinyl is both the medium (way to fragile and fussy to be practical), and the flexibility (no multi-channel possibility in a increasingly surround sound world). Also, poorly recorded vinyl abounds, and does NOT sound better than CD. The vinyl format will be a purely niche item in the future, if it is not already. When the high resolution lossless digital audio format becomes available that succeeds (NO FORMAT WAR THIS TIME as happened to SACD and DVD A!!), I will convert all my 2500 LPs joyfully. I do not enjoy endless cleaning, needle angle adjustment, tone arm tracking and anti skating, and the inevitable scratch and pop.

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#56117 - 11/01/05 03:57 PM Re: Phono performance
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Please, won't anyone report on the questions I asked, or at least on their experience in playing LPs through the 990? No offense, jmartin, but the question that started this thread was about phono performance, not opinions. Isn't there someone reading all this besides me who actually now plays LPs with the 990 from time to time, not some time or other in the future?
(Plaintive sigh)

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#56118 - 11/01/05 04:13 PM Re: Phono performance
gband Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 65
Loc: Central NJ
Yes I will. Just need to give me a couple of days. I just set up the system in a new room and don't have the turntable (Music Hall MMF-7) fully setup yet. I'll have something to report probably this weekend.

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#56119 - 11/02/05 03:03 AM Re: Phono performance
jmartin Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA, USA
I was comenting on the some of the previous reponses to your question. Being a teacher, I can get long winded and off subject easily. :p

I really do like the inclusion of a phono stage, and all ranting aside, love my records. On the point: I intend to purchase a 990 in the spring and will look this thread up and answer you. laugh

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#56120 - 11/04/05 02:46 AM Re: Phono performance
justhavingfun Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Lansing, KS
smile I finally had some time to listen to my LP collections on 990 phono stage. My turntable is Rega Planar 3 with Blue Point Special cartridge which is set up in my two channel only music system. This phone stage is driven by Musical Fidelity analog preamp. When I first hook up the RP3 to 990, I started with classical LPs likes of Vivaldi Cello Concerto, Mozart's sonatas, etc., I was only meant to listen to portion of the musical scores but ended up listeing to almost whole LPs; it was that good. Is that means that I like 990's phono stage than my Musical Fidelity? No but it is very close. If I have to describe 990's phono stage sound, I have to say it is very neutral almost laid back smooth sound. Again this sound reminds me why I prefer LPs analog vs. digital music in many cases. I am not saying all LPs are sound superior over CD counterpart; thus not all LPs are created equal as well as CDs. But in my experience, I do not get tire of listening to LPs compare to CDs.

However, given choices, I often grab CDs instead of LPs due to its inconvenience of cleaning, dusting, etc. Since I already have separate phono stage, inclusion of phone stage in 990 wasn't part of the reason why I bought it. But if you have old collection of LPs in your basement but neglected, 990 will fit nicely to bring that smooth sound of LPs. Yes, the gain can be little more but I had no trouble bringing volume loud enough for my listening level. Given its primary mission of 990 (HT digital preamp), the inclusion of M/M phono stage is absolutely fantastic specially how it sounds. Am I willing to give up my analog only setup? No but given enough time with 990 and I didn't have my analog setup to begin with, I will be very happy to use 990's phono stage.

If you want to use M/C cartridge, just use one of those high output M/C cartridge and 990 will drive it fine with sufficient gain. With such a good sound coming from 990, I brought some more of LPs likes of Stevie Wonder, George Winston's piano solo, Doors, Scorpion, Pink Floyd, Cars, Elton John,,,,etc. My two hour quick listening session became almost half a day marathon listening session with big smile in my face. I finally had to stop not because I was tired of listening but other commitment like working. Anyway I was very pleased with performance of 990 phono stage. If you haven't tried yet, give it spin, you might be surprise how good it sounds. BTW, not surprisingly I prefer listening to LPs with bypass mode although I prefer upsampling mode with CDs. And if you did't like it much, I am sure you have already separate analog setup like me. wink

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#56121 - 11/08/05 03:54 PM Re: Phono performance
gband Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 65
Loc: Central NJ
Ok I finally was able to play some LP's through the 990. My setup is 990, Music Hall MMF-7 turntable with Goldring Eroica Cartridge, Adcom 555II power amp and JM Labs Daline 6.1 Speakers. I listened to Joan Baez (Diamonds and Rust), Robert Palmer and ELP. In general I was very pleased with the sound. I though it did a better job than my Adcom 555II preamp that I just replaced. I did have to turn it up to get decent volume but it sounded great. I tried stereo, bypass, upsampling , 5.1 stereo, etc. etc. I preferred bypass the best although I heard no difference between bypass and stereo modes. The sound was sweet and no harsh and the bass came through like it should. I need to tweak my room and speaker placement(its new) to be more critical but I am very happy thus far with the phono performance. One thing I do miss though is the infrasonic filter on my adcom. It takes away those nasty (thumps) from someone hitting the rack.
I'll post more when I do some tweaking and more critical listening.

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#56122 - 11/08/05 08:03 PM Re: Phono performance
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Thanks, gband and justhavingfun - glad to see more people still enjoying LPs in spite of their inconvenience, and justifying the phono preamp on the 990. I was frankly surprised how good it is. BTW, gband, I don't think upsample will do anything for analog sources. I haven't compared the stereo and bypass settings; may put on the headphones for that. I hadn't thought about the lack of a subsonic filter (my AR turntable is pretty bump-proof) but have noticed that with the 990 I don't hear the hum that the Grado pickup is known to produce with the AR turntable. With the Adcom TPA500 it was audible but not bothersome. Better and better with the 990.

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#56123 - 11/09/05 05:34 PM Re: Phono performance
gband Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 65
Loc: Central NJ
Your probably right about upsampling, in fact I thought it odd that it was even an option. I have a granite slab that is used for lab balances, I need to put that back under the table. That might obviate the need for the infrasonic filter. I also need to do the headphone test for hum and the subtle differences between bypass and stereo. Through the speakers, no audible hum and the sound was great. Time for more listening. I have a second turntable, a Thorens 185 that I use for really beat LP's, with an Audio Technica cartridge that I should try. The Goldring is a high output moving coil, while the AT is a moving magnet. It should be louder on the 990. So much to try, so little time.

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