I’m very disappointed. First off let me say that I am a very big fan of Outlaw Audio. Any one who has been here a while (a long while) and read my comments can tell you that statment is the truth with out question. I currently own an Outlaw 950/7100 combo I love it and I have defended the quality of their products on other forums (i.e.: AVS and others) and have told everyone who ask about Outlaw Audio; the true pleasure it has been to own such quality equipment well worth more than their asking price IMHO. “But” (and this is a BIG BUT) the new Outlaw 990 IMHO was a slap in the face to all the old time Outlaw Audio supporters (I’m surprised Gonk never noticed or said anything He’s been here longer than me and may very well be the only bigger Outlaw fan than me that I know of…lol).

For the last 3-5 years or so Outlaw Audio has been issuing newsletters telling their loyal following that they have had a new Pre/Pro in the works, The so called “Big Brother” to the 950. A true “High End” piece. I have no doubt this was true and in the works at the time they made these statements, but what we have ended up with is far from the truth intended in those statements. My question is: Where is the new Outlaw Audio Pre/Pro??!! I find it very hard to believe that the 990 is the best they could do in 4-5 years.(The Sherwood P-965 has not been on the marked that long)
Now Please don’t get me wrong, I do completely understand why they did it; but that is really no excuse for the mass market, quick fix (read profit margin) BS.

The way I see it and please keep in mind this is IMHO and The Outlaws are welcome to correct me if I’m wrong.
Outlaw was within 6-10mts of releasing the new 1070 Receiver. That action would have effectively killed the sales of their 950 Pre/Pro( I commented before when the 1070 was first announced that releasing a new Receiver with a more advanced feature set than their current top of the line Pre/Pro would be a very bad financial move) They needed something fast to fill the void. Their solution was the Sherwood P-965, (next up on the price chart from the 950 and already receiving rave reviews) just 1 or 2 mods and you’ve got the Outlaw 990. Now don’t get me wrong I have no doubt that the 990 is an excellent sounding piece of gear. Over a year ago I auditioned the new Sherwood P-965 at one of my local A/V dealers and commented about how nice it looked and sounded on this forum.
My biggest complaint is not with the sound or build quality of this product, my complaint is that the 990 is not what we have been promised since the release of the 950. It is not an original Outlaw product! It is a reworked Sherwood product. Not even close to the Outlaw product that has (as we were led to believe) been in the works for 4-5 years. It is nothing more that a Sherwood P-965 with balanced outputs and a reworked menu system (maybe a few other things that I won't go into, but you all should get my point, not an Outlaw only design like the 950 by any means). That to me that is an insult. It did not take IMHO (nor did I wait) 4-5 years for them to rebadge someone else’s product! If I wanted a P-965 I would have bought one over a year ago!! One of the things about Outlaw Audio that I Loved (and still do. I have not given up on them by any means) so much was that they set the bar (performance vs. $$) and made other companies scramble to copy their gear, and ideas. Not the other way around. There was no competition. (The worst anyone could ever say about my 950 is they thought it was ugly and they didn’t like the “big green power button”)

I sincerely hope I have not offended other Outlaws on this forum, but I have always tried to give my honest opinion (and best advice) on this forum and I don’t think Outlaw Audio or any true fans of their products would want this forum any other way. All I can say is I hope the Outlaws have not given up on their new Outlaw exclusive designed Pre/Pro because I haven’t given up on them and I am still waiting.

Lasher

By that Logic, it's also a Boston Acoustics pre/pro. According to previous posts in this forum, all three are based on a platform (if you will) developed by a manufacturer called Etronics (sp?). From said posts, it seems that Outlaw did, in fact, actively design the unit using the basic structure, but to what extent there are differences is a topic for the better informed.

Considering the size of the 990, and the fact that BA already uses this platform for a receiver, does anyone else suspect that a bigger, badder Outlaw receiver may be in the pipe?

I started to write a long answer to this, but it's far too late as I sit here at work and wait on a server to finish getting over some hardware troubles.

The Model 1050, 950, and 1070 have been developed by Outlaw from scratch in conjunction with Eastech. This process is very time consuming (as both the 950 and 1070 have proven). The Model 990 is a highly modified cousin of the Etronics/Sherwood P-965, with those fairly numerous modifications stemming from Outlaw's effort to develop what ended up being both big brother and successor to the 950. It would have been cool for Outlaw to have both the 950 and 990 on the market at once, but the price spread between them and the feature set differences would have made for an odd product offering - hence the decision to retire the three-year-old 950. Had Outlaw done what Boston Acoustics appears to have done (whip up a new faceplate for the P-965/R-965 and hang their name on it), I would have been a little disappointed - but considering the refinements made to the P-965 platform for the Model 990, I'm quite pleased with the arrangement.

Now, to try to figure out if I can get any more done with this server before I have to go to sleep...

Lasher:

The great thing about this place is that people will discuss what you say, no one should bash you about your opinion, expressed as you see it.

However, I guess I have to take a bit of an issue with your comment about the "promises for 3 to 5 years for a high-end pre-pro". While it IS true that there was talk of such a product as a step-up from the 950, but that hasn't been mentioned in recent months -- or years.

From another view, whether the 990 is "high end" or not is in the eyes -- and ears -- of the beholder. Not high end in terms of price, and by the Outlaw's own admission, not developed by them from the ground up (as the 1050, 950 and 1070 were and the RR 2150 will be) but it certainlly has features and performance well beyond that of the 950 and differentiated by way of DVI, balanced outputs and the menu system from other products based on the same platform.

For my $$$ I guess I'm cutting the Outlaws a bit of slack since doing a true, high-end processor must be an incredible task if you don't base it on something that is pre-existing. Maybe the volume needed to do it isn't there. Maybe they ARE working on such a product, but seeing what is coming down the road have held back to really do a no holds barred type of piece. Only the Outlaws know for sure.

Hang in there; you never know what they might come up with. To some extent, though it isn't multi-channel, I'd bet that to some ears they may be in the high end realm with the 2150. That's what I'm waiting for.

I read with interest your post reminding everyone of the promised product that would be delivered to all waiting Outlaws. I was another who purchased the 950 and waited years for the second coming. I find it amusing that Sherwood used their research and development money to develop the final 965 product and bring it to market. This process took years and many man hours and plenty of money. Outlaw waited for the product to come to market, opened up the 965 box and see what made it tick. They were able to upgrade options and introduce the new Outlaw 990 product in only months. This is something that every business must do when the competition is moving forward with product. The great thing is Outlaw brought it to market at a bargain price with better innovations, and the money saved on R & D can be used for the betterment of other Outlaw products waiting to be released. This time being a Outlaw feels good in my wallet.

well newsletter came out,maybe something there 4 ya.

i heard locally 'someone from KINERGETICS was in on the design of outlaw amps.'

any truth to the rumor?

the guy i talked to was overly impressed with outlaw amps.

As I said in response to your other post, I believe Outlaw's amps are designed in partnership with ATI, and manufactured by them as well.

It's possible someone else was involved, but I know not of Kinergetics.

What specifically are you waiting for? Something "exclusive"? The reason I'm asking is because you don't mention anything else that is disappointing you about the 990. Is exclusivity such an important feature for you?

Let me ask another way. Suppose Outlaw came out with a product with the features you wanted (and then some) at a comfortable price point, making you happy with to total package. Would your happiness turn to disappointment IF it turned out that similar products existed (either before or after the Outlaw unit)?

Like I said, the only reason I'm asking is because you haven't mentioned anything else that disappointed you about the 990 except for its lack of exclusivity. If a particular product meets your needs, why is it important to you that another company not have a similar product?

sdurani:

I'm not really waiting for anything. I'm still very happy with my 950. I never said that I was disappointed with the 990. What bothered me was that there is no way the 990 is the product they have been telling us about for the last few years. I think the 990 looks to be a wonderful piece and would recommend it to anyone who asks. The only thing I don't like about it is the lack of analog bass management but that has nothing to do with my original post. Most likely if I were in the market for a new pre/pro I would buy the 990 so please don't misunderstand my statements. I meant no offence to anyone.

Lasher

i own the 990 and am very impressed .. so they saved money on the box... the components inside make the difference.. for instance some fellows take the old adcom 545 and 555 amps and do a 200 to 300 $$ upgrade on the power supply and capacitors and you have a way better unit.. the (box ) means nothing.. as was stated earlier the sherwood and Boston use it as well .. one great example of same shell diff components even though they were car audio was the orion company .. the black 2150 the red hcca 50 and the nt 4 .. were the same shell but were 1000$ 1750 and 2000.. just by changing caps and resitors etc..

and yes outlaw uses some help from ATI on their amps .. i use a ATI 1506 with my 990 and love them together .. and believe me ATI makes great equipt ..

bottom line i think is outlaw is trying to give us the best for the lowest $ they can .. if it shaved 100$ off of the unit $ to use a already in production shell compared to doing R & D and coming up with thier exclusive shell good .. or maybe they put that 100 into the dvi switching or balanced outputs or better bass management .. these are more important than the shell .. and well outlaws 950 wasnt known for its sleek looks ..the only downfalls in reviews i heard was the looks so maybe thats why they did it..

bottom line .. dont be (disapointed) due to the fact they used a case already designed .. believe me its all high quality outlaw inside..