What does the upgrade path look like for the 990 with the new HD DVD formats (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray)? In the HDMI thread there was some talk about HD video output only being available on HDMI.

Whether or not HD video is only on HDMI, could you get the audio signal out of the HDMI connection (or some other digital connection) and pass it on the the 990? Will the 990 be able to accept DD+, DTS++, and MLP lossless when the time comes?

The two HD formats are a very interesting subject for a number of reasons (and very frustrating). First, the standard for output from them has not been clearly defined, making it effectively impossible for anyone to design a receiver or processor that can guarantee support for them. (Which may be related to Toshiba's very recent decision to push the HD-DVD launch into early 2006, around the same time that Sony will launch Blu-Ray...)

HD-DVD has said that the component video output will be limited to 480 (I'm not sure if that will be 480p or 480i, but either way it essentially makes the component outputs useless for HDTV's). Blu-Ray hasn't said either way, but is likely to do the same. That leaves the true high definition video in the digital domain (HDMI output to either a DVI or HDMI display). The audio output will be by HDMI in some form (presumably HDMI 1.2, although as I mentioned in the HDMI 1.2 thread there was no specific mention of either Dolby Digital Plus or DTS-HD in the HDMI 1.2 announcement). The specifics of the audio output have not been well spelled out at all (I've looked for those specifics for months now). We know (because of the specifications for DD+ and DTS-HD) that downmixed DD and DTS audio will be available from coaxial or optical outputs, just like existing DVD's. Personally, I also expect that most players will include analog decoders that are functionally identical to the Dolby Digital decoders found in early DVD players, with a 7.1 analog audio output available to support the huge installed base of DD/DTS receivers and processors (including the Model 990). The Model 990 will not be able to accept a digital signal carrying DD+, DTS-HD, or MLP lossless, but so far I've seen nothing that would suggest that a multichannel analog signal would be forbidden - which means we should be able to get those DD+ and DTS-HD soundtracks through the 990 and on to our ears. The only obvious exception to this is the PS3 - it will apparently support playing Blu-Ray movies, but lacks a multichannel analog output, so the only way to hook one up to a Model 990 would be via the optical output (which means downmixed DD and DTS audio).

I highly doubt there will be a migration path that will be able to get the audio out of the next generation formats into the 990 digitally. It's much more likely that players will provide analog outputs, and we'll be connecting those to the 990's multi-channel analog inputs. Less than ideal to be sure, but better than nothing.

Once the standards settle down, I would bet that Outlaw's next processor will have support for a digital connection to the new players.

News article relating Samsung's intention of producing a dual standard HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player if the two camps do not reach an agreement on a single standard.

Call me crazy, but by the time there is any "incompatible content" actually available, we'll probably all have upgraded our equipment to something more current. It will be YEARS before any prerecorded HD content shows up in the wild. The standards don't even exist yet so the target market is vanishingly small. At the end of the day, the studios want to sell DVDs. If nobody can watch them, they don't make any money.

Cheers,

And that's the clincher. Of course, it doesn't help that each side believes they will prevail, and now Mr Gates comes in on one side to ensure that the next gen consoles will be incompatible with 50% of HD movies, as well. The end result is, we'll be without a convenient HD format for some time.

So has MS officially announced HD-DVD support on the Xbox360? I haven't been keeping real close tabs on the next gen consoles, but the last news I saw seemed to indicate that at least the first batches of Xbox360's were going to use standard DVD drives. I've read stuff recently that suggested Toshiba would really like to see HD-DVD support in the Xbox360, and it would certainly add an extra layer of insanity to the format war...

True enough. I think slashdot has some info, but to your point the initial runs of the new xbox will have std DVD, with the HD version coming on board around 11/25 (officially?). Apparently, this is MS' reciprocity for Toshiba's exclusive use of Longhorn on upcoming laptops and tablets? With Sony on the other side of the fence, this doesn't look good...

Gonk:

MS has not said anything about HD-DVD support, and to be honest I wouldn't expect it from launch. If nothing else, the first gen units will not have an HD-DVD capable optical drive AND there will be no HDMI through the dongle adaptor on the initial units. Remember, HD-DVD has announced a delay, and to have it in Xbox 360 would be problematic.

I suspect you'll see it as an upgrade some time LATE next year.

That's what I was thinking, PodBoy, especially after looking at the Xbox360 on MS's official site - with no HDMI output and Toshiba's decision to wait until next year to start shipping HD-DVD players, it would be difficult at best (if not simply impossible) to include HD-DVD support in the initial 360's. Factor in the presumable absence of HD-DVD titles between the time the 360 launches and the time the HD-DVD format is launched by Toshiba, and it would get even worse. I do wonder if MS isn't stumbling a bit - the $300 and $400 versions of the 360 are already stirring up some trouble (and likely a lot of confusion in the marketplace come launch day), and following up with an "Xbox361" next year (since I don't see a way to squeeze HD-DVD playback support and HDMI output into existing units) could tick some folks off. It's sort of like the GBA and GBA SP, except with a much larger price tag attached. Time will tell...

Well since we are talking about 1080p and whether the next version of the 990 will pass the signal along I would like to ask another question. My last two posts got 40 or so responses, so I really want to thank you all for your help, I makes me feel like such a damn newbie! Anyway I was reading an article in S&V about the new Mitsubishi 1080p DLP's and out of the blue they wrote "In any event, most of the 1080p HDTVs expected this year can't even accept a 1080p signal via their HDMI or component-video inputs." What am I missing? Why do I want a HDTV with native 1080p that cannot except a 1080p signal? It almost sounds like they are blaming HDMI, but in the HDMI thread it was posted that current (1.1)HDMI can pass 1080p, 1.2 seemed to be mostly about PC interface.

Well, for one thing, what are they going to get a 1080p signal from? There is no existing format that supports such a resolution. As you mentioned, in one of the DVI/HDMI threads there was some mention of HDMI 1.1 not having the bandwidth for 1080p60 (sixty frames per second), but it is supposed to be able to handle 1080p24 (24 frames per second, the standard for film) assuming such a source existed. I don't know if component video will even support 1080p or not (it may), but when we do eventually get a 1080p source it seems likely that it will be restricted to digital video output (which means HDMI or DVI only).

It's likely that none of the developing formats, unfortunately, will make any better than 480p on analog outputs. I long for the day when all video formats and all TVs played nice together. Considering the money people shell out for HDTVs, it's a shame that some of them will end up with (for all practical purposes) an EDTV with these developing formats. Too many greedy chefs in the kitchen.

Oh, and you're right on about the X360. That part of the HD-DVD equation is, in fact, speculation in the article. There I go again :rolleyes: