Originally posted by Prefect:
Wayne,
I read everything up to your post as mostly friendly discussion, but clearly you felt attacked.
It was not, so much, feeling that
I was attacked, but rather, the
factual information that I was
attempting to provide to the less informed, that they might draw a more
educated conclusion, based upon
facts, rather than conjecture and/or opinion. I feel this to be an important point; to draw distinction between
fact and opinion. I offer an quote of
Kosman - “
Thanks guys, I guess you all have put that myth to bed.”
NO MYTH was “
put to bed”!
Real or opined! How on
Earth can poor
Kosman, (
or any other newcommer to these pages, for that matter) arrive at
any meaningful conclusions, when what he is given, in
place of
factual information, is biased, opinionated conjecture from the seemingly-informed. I say ‘
seemingly-informed’ as those that make these jaded, fallacious, opinionated comments do so without regard of
facts, or their personal responsibility to other forum members.
PodBoy was the first to respond, and did so (
at first) in an
informationally helpful manner. Concise, accurate, no
B.S.Gonk is a member that seems to typically have his facts straight before he starts to type and, whether he is
aware of it or not, he is admired for his (
truely) helpful approach in this forum. And so, I will take this opportunity to publically
thank you, Gonk for all of your tireless effort within these pages! The
Outlaw Audio Forum would be a much lesser place in
your absence.
This leads me to another point of contention;
I feel (
have always felt) that
I (
we) possess a responsibility to my (
our) fellow members of this forum, that when we are asked a question in good faith (
aside from an obvious jest)
I (
we) would do well to give as
factually informative a response as
I (
we) are capable of providing, unless
I (
we)
am (
are) invited to
speculation. But, that's just
me.
I don't think it's fair to broadly say that equipment bearing a THX logo is high quality any more than it's fair to say that any gear with a THX logo is junk. It's a multi-tiered for-pay certification program, and I think that many of us feel that it's a lot more marketing-heavy than technical-heavy. Had they stuck to their high-end criteria only, I think many of us would have more respect for the mark.
A fair statement, to be sure. Although, the
THX performance criteria is in
no way concerned with a given product’s
quality, as
THX has
no control over what a
manufacturer succeeds, or fails to do to meet this
phantom specification of "
quality" that everyone keeps harping-on about. It
simply does not exist, and
I defy
anyone to
PROVE this statement a
falsehood! And, this merely serves to bring my arguement around again to the contention that peoples
opinions are holding sway in this discussion.
NOT FACTS!!
Believe me, I am
well aware that
the majority, if not all of the forum participants
feel that “
it's a lot more marketing-heavy than technical-heavy”, and that “
Had they stuck to their high-end criteria only, I think many of us would have more respect for the mark”. Whether anyone “
has respect for the mark”, or not, is of utterly
no concern to me. What
is of
tremendous concern to me, however, is this forum’s
complete and
utter disregard for
FACTS!!! And, so far as
I can see,
I am alone in being willing and/or able to
produce any, or that
cares either way.
However, they made a smart business decision and realized there were going to be many more low and mid-grade products sold in the HT marketplace, and realized they could cash in on that by segmenting their certifications. The unfortunate side-effect of this is that Joe Sixpack thinks buying a cheap $200 receiver with a THX logo from the local big box is getting him something special over some other piece of gear without the logo, when in reality a portion of the unit cost had to go to lining Lucas's pockets for the license fees.
Not being present at a
single share-holders meeting,
I would prefer
not to speculate as to any political motives or
goings-on therein. It may be
just as you have said. It may
not. Only
one thing is for certain; there is
no way to
know for
sure, either way. My first
impression would be that, being a
business, they
probably want to generate as many streams of income (
diversify) as much as they are able.
I don’t nessessarily see this as being a
bad thing. Capitolism is good...
just ask Gordon Geko.
As for the mis-adventures of “
Joe Sixpack”; if
$200 is all that Mr.
Sixpack is willing to spend, and Mr.
Sixpack believes that the “
local big box” is the place to find
anything of quality, well... you know what they say about a
fool and his
money.
Now, as far as
Lucas lining his pockets with the licensing fees; I cannot speak for anyone else but,
I look after
my financial interests on a daily basis. So, as
I see it, how could
I, (
without hypocracy) begrudge
Lucas for doing the same? So, what are we
really talking about here? I mean, is it that poor old
Joe got “
ripped-off”, or that the “
evil” capitolist,
George Lucas, made money?
I do think it's great that they established criteria against which equipment (and rooms) can be measured, but as evidenced by the dearth of junk at the big boxes with the THX logo, an unqualified "my unit is THX certified" is meaningless. It's great for their business because it's a household brand (within our niche of interest anyway), but it's meaningless from a technical standpoint.
I do agree that an unqualified “
my unit is THX certified” has a
potential for being technically meaningless. It’s just that, I don’t believe that
that is
indeed the case, in any prevalent way. Then again, that is
only my
opinion, and I admit that I cannot
factually refute it. “
dearth of junk”... I
like the way you put that!
I,
personally would
never shop for
anything of
quality at a “
big box”. I am a
firm believer that ‘
one gets what one is willing to pay for’.
It is unfortunate that there is not another standards body which has a set of standards by which HT systems could be measured. Unfortunately all we do have is a company that collects license fees for the certification, thus putting them in a bit of a conflict of interest situation.
Does
anyone reading this think, for a
single moment, that
Dolby Laboratories or Digital Theater Systems (DTS) don’t receive a
review sample of
each and
every product that bears
their technologies,
and their
company’s logo?! Does
anyone believe that they don't charge a
fee for the use of
their technologies and logo copyright in a consumer product?!
Both have
huge warehouses where they store each and every sample sent to them. And, you don’t have to
take my word for it. Ask
Scott, our forum
Moderator if Outlaw has to submit samples to
both for
technical-specification review.
Now, for the sake of
arguement, let us imagine that
both of these fine organizations receive a review sample that is (
purely by coincidence) also
THX certified. Let us
also assume that this unit is, to coin a phrase, “
a piece of crap”. Okay, so the cover is off the unit, very dire-looking men in white lab coates hover, poking around inside, performing all
sorts of technically
meaningful tests, and through
all of this,
not so much as once did they test the unit for
sound quality. Those
bastards! How in the
world could they allow their company’s name to go on that piece of “
crap”?! I mean, it was
right there, they
tested it. Why’d they “
certify” that piece of “
crap??!!
Wait though, it passed spec, right? And besides, “
they” didn’t design it. Brand “
XYZ” did
that. “
They” didn’t
build it either. Again, “
XYZ”. But then, why aren’t “
they” (
Dolby or DTS) to blame for the unit’s decided “
crappiness”?
What?
Oooooh, because the issue of
sound quality isn’t part of “
their” company's
criteria of performance tests?
Oooooh. Well, in
that case I think that we can all consider
them exhonorated, and relieved of
any and
all resposibilities there of. After all, it was never “
their”
job, was it?
So,
who to blame?
Aaaaah, it
must be the
manufacturers fault then!
No?! But, why
not? “
XYZ” designed, built and are going to market it,
aren’t they?
Hmmmmm. Well, if niether
Dolby, DTS nor “XYZ” can be blamed, then whom
shall we blame??!!
Oooooh,
THX!! Hey,
good idea! I hear that the “
evil” capitolist,
George Lucas, is a
multi-millionare,
maybe even a
billionare!
Yeah, let’s blame
him.
He’s an
easy target. Besides,
everybody hates
that guy. Yeah,
he ruined
Star Wars!!! :rolleyes:
The previously illustrated scenario is
nothing more than
my opinion of the way many think, (
or, at least, react, which is essentially the same thing) in regards to the
facts of this subject. The reasoning behind it seems, at
best, illogical and perplexing. But, never the less... there it is.
In the
end, what it
all amounts to is that niether
Dolby, DTS nor THX give a “
rodent’s rectum” about the “
quality” of sound reproduction from any product that passes
their spec parameters. What's more, it is appearent that
some manufacturers care as little and, for what it's worth,
I feel confident in saying that it is with the
manufacturer, that the burden of
sound quality lies,
not with
Dolby, DTS or THX. For
any of these companies to be concerned with
anything beyond the scope of what they’re being
paid to do, is to risk the loss of revenue. And, when one is in business,
losing money is
never considered acceptable. Whether the philosophical conotations of these
cold, hard facts are of any
moral significance.... I leave
that to the reader to decide for themselves.
My sincere apologies, and thanks to
Prefect. I'm sorry that
your post was the one I drew as
my "
jumping-off point".
Wayne