The 990 looks and seems like an excellent product. What are the chances in another year or two to get a version 2 990 with HDMI?

My DVD player can pass DD and DTS over HDMI. Also my display only has one HDMI input. I'm thinking that XBox 360 will be HDMI. Also it appears that Blue Ray and/or HD-DVD will be HDMI.

So what do you all think? Chance to get v2 990 w/ HDMI, and while were are asking for miracles how about 3 or 4 HDMI inputs...

Literally the only thing that would hold me bck is the DVI connections.

Regards,

Charlie

I know that you can get DVI-HDMI cables, but I have read about issues with doing this. Most common is the inability to pass Blacker Than Black.

Edited to clarify statement about XBOX 360/Blue Ray/HD-DVD.. I meant them as separate entities.

When using "straight through" DVI switching, as the 990 does, there is no issue with the alledged "Blacker than Black" issue.

Based on what Microsoft said in May at E3, and more importantly what they did NOT say or show, the Xbox 360 will probably NOT have BluRay or HD-DVD. Current betting is that unless they make a last minute course correction, the HD playback for movies will be in the "WMV-HD" format only. Microsoft has been VERY close about what the actual connections on Xbox 360 will be, and it is worth noting that NONE of the units shown either at their press conference or on the E3 show floor were positioned in such a way as to allow anyone to see the rear panel. Insiders indicate that the current plan still seems to point towars analog Y/Pr/Pb connections via a "dongle" similar to what the current Xbox uses and that there will be NO HDMI on the 360.

You shouldn't have any problems in using the 990 with the DVI-HDMI cables.

There was quite a bit of discussion about this a while back, but it has been a while. Basically, for purely video switching, the 990's DVI inputs and output are capable of switching DVI and HDMI without any issues at all. We poked and prodded at it in some detail (including a few e-mail exchanges with Outlaw to verify our assumptions with the design team), and confirmed that HDMI video signals can be switched without any concerns about "blacker than black" data loss. You can even now get DVI-HDMI cables from Outlaw now (they're only listed on the order form, no information elsewhere yet). As for audio, however, the final HDMI audio specs remain in a state of flux and the potential for the final form (the one that you would have on a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player) to require different hardware is what drove Outlaw to stick with a purely video switching solution and to use DVI connections to avoid any confusion as to whether audio is supported or not.

The PS3 will support Blu-Ray media and will have an HDMI output. I haven't seen as much information about the XBox360, but it sounds like PodBoy's kept up with it and if the information he's seen is correct then the PS3 is likely to be the only next-gen console with a digital video output.

I think its safe to say that its still very much in the air if the xbox 360 will have dvi or hdmi. After meeting with Microsoft and seeing it at E3, IGN.com believes it will have dvi or hdmi, but I am sure there are others that believe it won't. IMO it would be a huge mistake to not include at least DVI, but that is only my belief.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/608/608394p4.html

Jed:

Hate to differ, but I also was at E3 and have had subsequent meetings and similar. At this point the real issue is that they are playing it VERY close to the vest and it is one of those "the people who know aren't telling and the people who are telling probably don't know" sort of things.

It is true that MS is being very upfront about the part HD will play in the Xbox 360 strategy, but when you compare the image quality of Xbox 360 to PS3, admitedly no one has yet been able to do side by side, PS3 appears to have the edge. I go with the the "if 360 had HDMI they'd have said so" camp. Since they didn't I'm guessint it won't.

Then again, anything might change between now and the launch date, but with the disclaimer that I'm possibly wrong, I'd bet no HDMI unless it is accompanied by a last minute change to HD-DVD, and that seems not to be in the cards, either.

Thanks for the input. I guess the thought is that there is no chance for a v2 because it does not appear to really be necessary. The biggest issue to me was the passing blacker than black.

As far as the xbox 360 goes, we will have to wait and see. Hopefully Microsoft made the wise choice and included or have an option for HDMI and /or DVI.

Thanks for the replies....

Charlie

Remember that the video output of the xbox and the xbox360 is determined by the type of plug attached to the unit. The unit itself has a proprietary plug. Getting Component, S video, RCA, HDMI or DVI is just a question of releasing another cable adapter. If Microsoft decided there was not enough demand to produce a first party HDMI/DVI cable a third party company could produce it just as well and most likely will. For example, the xbox does not have a VGA connector made by MSFT (there was not enough demand to warrant it) but there are connectors for this made by other companies.

As for HDDVD and BlueRay it will NOT be in Xbox 360 because it will does not and will not exist for the xbox360 timeframe (November 2005). Microsoft has stated that they are flexible and would include it once it is available (they are also very wary about what will happen between HDDVD and BlueRay). Sony has touted BlueRay but admitted to developers (in private less publicized events) that this may change depending on the state of the market for the March 2006 time frame. At this point joining either camp is probably a bad idea and it makes sense to wait until the dust settles (VHS vs. Beta war comes to mind).

More thoughts:

>> Sony hasn't really said where the "March 2006" intro date applies, either at E3 or subsequent PS3 related events. Don't be surprised if the March date is for Japan, followed by North America a few months afterward and then Europe and ROW even later into the year. Regardless, they seem committed to BRD for a variety of obvious reasons.

>> Microsoft, on the other hand, has been more than cagey about many of the details surrounding Xbox 360. Since we didn't get to see the rear panel of the unit at E3 no one has said for certain if they will continue the notion of using a variety of different dongles to determine the output connectivity or go as Sony will by including "hard" connection jacks for HDMI and digital audio. Current guessing is that they WON'T have hard HDMI jacks, and it's unlikely, theoretically possible, that they would be able to do a "dongle to HDMI" cable.

>> Some of the details still uncertain are if the optical drive in the 360 will be user upgradeable, which would give them the ability to start with a standard red laser drive and offer a migration path later, presuming that the internal HW can deal with the selected high def DVD format. We're all still guessing about this one. MS and Toshiba have ties on the computer side of things for HD-DVD, but that may or may not influence the world of Xbox. You're quite correct that they're in a time crunch as it is, and that there WILL be loads of "HD" on the initial 360 platform, but it's likely to be output only from red-laser based games and through conventional Y/Pr/Pb component outputs.

Yikes, it's a mess! With all of this, the Outlaws' decision to keep it all simple and go with DVI for now in parallel with tried and true analog component seems to be a wise choice.

I think that the addition of two switched DVI ports was a marketing ploy and a mistake.

I won't go into what HDMI is or isn't, or what it may become. However, if you are interested you can go to the following link and start some reading. hdmi

It is also my opinion that the capabilities of HDMI 1.0 and 1.1 are not fully understood by most. There are lots of opinions flying around, and most of them are wrong (sort of like debates on why the RLC parameters of speaker wire don't fully describe the characteristics of that wire).

I think that Outlaw would have been better served by having 3 HDMI inputs and 1 output. These should have been connected to the processor so that the audio could have been pulled directly off the line, if so desired.

As I currently understand it, all you have is a DVI switch. So what? I don't think that this adds much capability, especially when the newer HDTVs are including 2-3 HDMI input ports.

I vote for a 990 with 3 HDMI input and 1 HDMI output port!!!!!!

Rat - That is pretty much the Pre/Pro I want too.

Having said that, point me to another HDMI 1.1 Pre/Pro and I'll buy it. Outlaw has said the interface isn't ready and I agree. Several 1.1 receivers have been announced but I don't believe any are actually shipping, not to mention the lack of 1.1 sources available at this time.

The only Pre/Pro with HDMI 1.1 that I have even heard about at this point is the Anthem. I'm sure others will be announced at CEDIA but announcing and shipping products are two very different things. What happens when HDMI "1.2" is approved and the new Hi-Res versions of DD and DTS show up? There’s no guarantee that these 1.1 machines will be able to be upgraded with firmware to accommodate the new standards.

I have no doubt Outlaw and others will eventually have a HDMI Pre/Pro, but suspect it is a ways off yet. If you view the 990 as a very nice update to the 950 and an interim processor until the “real HDMI” processors get here I think it is hardly a “mistake”. Now if only they would have put a Firewire interface on the 990.