If my Klipsch Reference series system (RF-3 IIs, RS-3 IIs and RC-3 II) sounds good with the Outlaw 990/755 what would make it sound better?. I been bitten with the bug and now suffer from audiophile upgrade-itus.
I’m wanting to stay around $2000 for two large mains, two surrounds and one center channel. I’ll be keeping my Velodyne sub for now, but may change that to an Outlaw LF-1 or something from SVS later. I listen to a great deal of two channel audio, so very good mains are important to me. Here’s my current short list:

- Axiom Audio with the M80 mains.
- Mordaunt Short Avant series.
- Paradigm Monitor series.
- RBH??

Any comments or suggestions for other speakers are greatly appreciated.

My first suggestion is to try to find a way to demo as many of the speakers as you can. I say that because speakers are very much a matter of personal taste. I'm very fond of my Paradigm Reference v2 speakers (which would exceed the $2000 budget with the new v3 line), and so would tend to agree that the Paradigm Monitors are a good choice to consider. Axiom's are going to have a similar sound to the Paradigms (both share the Canadian speaker design lineage), and based on the M3ti surrounds that I have I would consider them to be a good choice to consider as well, especially of the Paradigms seem to suit your taste. There have been several similar threads in the past, but Outlaw_Tim's current what speakers are you using thread would be a good place to find speakers that might be worth auditioning.

I agree with gonk . Audition as many different types of speakers as you can . You probably already know this but, the Klipsch are very efficient speakers and the horn will sound considerably different than traditional style tweeters . So keep this in mind when you are listening .

The Paradigm would be strong for both music and home theater application . PSB is pretty solid and sound similar to the Paradigm .

Maybe someone could way in on the Rockets here . I would be interested in hearing how Rocket owners feel they would stand up . From what I have read in other forums they seem to be some pretty heavy hitters .

I love the Paradigm reference series too. Yap, the V3 are expensive. The V1 or V2 are far cheaper, but wonder if you still can get these.
If you have good subwoofer, the Studio Reference 20's for fronts and surrounds and a reference center, if budget is a concern. I highly recommend Paradigm.

Kwok

I'd say the Paradigms and Axioms are at the top of my list. Anchoring a new setup around either the Monitor 11s or M80tis. When it comes to two channel audio, I'm still a believer in larger speakers with more cones = better sound. Hence, my leanings toward M80s and Monitor 11. They also have a great look to them. Problem is actually finding a local vendor who sells all the great speaker brands to audition. I live in a major suburb of Kansas City and there are suprisingly few retailers of high end audio equipment in the entire metro area. I did locate one who sells Paradigms and do plan to audition them. I've been checking out Onix Rocket series as well. They get great praise here and other places. Although, they may be a little out of my budget.

I know all will sound radically different than the Klipsch horns. Those horns are both really great and other times really harsh. It just depends on the source. They can be the most 'live,' 'concert-like' and impressive sounding of any speaker I've ever owned from when listening to one thing and really blaring/harsh from others.

The Axiom line will sound freaking amazing !!! Those m80's can handle all the power the 990 can dish out, and sound better as the volume increases, for the money, i'm very satisfied with mine

I used to own the same Klipsch speakers as you. Just like yourself, I liked them but was looking for something "more" after upgrading to Outlaw gear (950/770). After doing some local auditioning I did some auditions between a few internet companies about 20 months ago and ended up choosing Onix Reference speakers. Unfortunately Axiom wasn't one of the internet speakers I listened to so I can't comment on which I preferred. I would imagine that any of the companies you mention build quality speakers so it's really just a matter of which sounds best to you. Because we all hear things differently, there really is no wrong choice with speakers (except Bose). My advice would be if you get the chance, always audition them at your house with your gear.

The quest continues for the perfect speaker upgrade to compliment my beloved Outlaw 990 & 755. I finished my auditions at all the local stores I could find. I tried Phase Technologies, Martin Logan, Definitive Technology, B&W and of course Paradigm. My favorite were the Paradigm Monitor series. Unfortunately, the Paradigm dealer is tiny and didn't even have the Monitor 11 in stock, which is what I really wanted to hear. They did have the Monitor 7 and they did sound good. Although a little boxy, but I think that was mostly due to the extremely small listening room. So, my top two choices are still Paradigms and Axioms.

I contacted Axiom Saturday evening and talked to a really friendly French Canadian who was a pleasure to deal with. He said Outlaw amps and gear are one of their recommended setups to go with their speakers. He also told me they consider Axiom the sonic comparable to Paradigm's much more expensive studio line. With the M80 an equal to the Studio 100. Now, I don't know how much of this is truth and how much was sales pitch, but if there is truth to his claim, I'd be a fool not to go with Axiom. Anyone care to weigh in on this?

I've heard before that the Axioms are closer to the Studio line than the Monitor line, but that was back when the v2 Studios were current - and the v3 Studios are reportedly a bit better than the v2's. Based on that and my years with the Studio/60v2, I don't know that an M80 is going to be the equal of a Studio 100v3, but even if it comes out of the comparison reasonably successfully then it would speak well of the Axiom. I know that the M3ti's I'm using as surrounds have more or less held their own in an otherwise all-Studio v2 setup (although I do still have a slight preference for the Studio/ADP's as side surrounds - but the den doesn't offer mounting locations for the ADP's). My guess? If you like the Monitors, then the Axioms would probably also be a very good fit for you.

Anyway you could get a pair of Paradigms from your dealer without having a restocking fee? I think it would be beneficial to hear both of them side by side in your own room, but that can be hard to do sometimes.

Didn't notice you were from Olathe. I grew up in Lake Quivira. I will be driving through Olathe in a week or so on my way back home for a wedding. Boy, that city has changed in the last decade. Anyway, good luck with your decision.

No kidding - Lake Quivira? Small world! I know right where that is. Just at the top of the Johnson County line. Yeah, Olathe is getting to be a rather large suburban mess. I see you live in Vegas? I usually end up there once or twice a year. That's another city marked by change in the last decade. The housing additions are all the way the the mountains now. I love the area though.

I'm thinking if the M80s are in fact CLOSE to the Studio 100s, then it's a no brainer. I'm saving the cash and going with Axiom. I get the feeling Axiom uses Paradigm as their benchmark. The nice guy at Axiom did say their speakers share much in common from research, design and builing with Paradigm.

I will still contact the one and only local Paradigm dealer today about a direct in-home comparison. We'll see what they say since the Monitor 11s will need to be ordered.

Guys, my sincere thanks for all the input. I'm very impressed with all things Outlaw, the products and the customers!

I strongly agree with Gonk. Recommending speakers is like recommending ice cream. Once you have decided to spend enough money to get quality speakers it is all about personal preference. One persons dream of "mint-mocha-delight" may be another persons nightmare.

You should audition any speaker you are interested in before you buy it. I would no more buy a pair of speakers I had never heard than I would buy an acoustic guitar I had never played.

Electronics can be ordered online sight unseen because what you are looking for is transparency, and most quality equipment provides it these days. It is my belief that if you took two quality pieces of equipment (say an Outlaw 990 and an Anthen AVM 30) and did a double blind test using the same modes with all other things being equal, that the human ear wouldn't be able to detect a difference. The very reason nobody in the audiophile trade does double blind tests is because there is a lot of money to be made selling gear that doesn't make a diffence sonically ($400 interconnects for instance).

Speakers are a completely different story. Every loudspeaker has a signature sound to which people react differently. I worked for three years selling audio gear at a brick and mortar, and found out first hand how true this really is. Time and time again I auditioned the same pieces of equipment and would get completely different reactions from one customer to another.

I apologize for going on and on, but I see so much attention to electronics these days in the various audio forums when it is speakers that make the most diffence in the overall sound of a home audio system.

Well, here's the latest. I'm going to go with what I KNOW I liked. I called the Paradigm dealer and he made me an offer I can't refuse. Version 3 Monitor 11, 3 and 370 center all in rosenut color for a little less than Axiom 80s, 3s and center, with sales tax included on the Paradigms. No restocking fees should I decide I don't like them. Nor, will there be any shipping cost associated with a return. I could go ahead an order a set of the Axioms for a side by side, but I don't think the headache is worth it. Besides, my wife would bury me and the speakers and the Outlaw gear in the backyard.

CJL1138, you illustrate what is so nice about online speaker companies. Having a 30-45 day trial with minimum risk is a great option. If there is any piece of equipment that one needs to not only hear, but hear in their own room, its speakers. Hearing a speaker in the room it will be placed is light years better than hearing it in a retail store. Some local dealers are really flexible about letting you take them home for a trial period, but most (or at least all I know) are not.

You might wish to consider Aperion Audio (at aperionaudio.com). They give a 30 day trial and will pay shipping both ways. They also have a 10 year warranty and full trade-up value for up to a year.

Jed M,

You make a great point. If they will let you take it home for a free trial, and you don't mind the headache you should definitely go for it.

After one week with new speakers, I can now answer m y own question, If Klispch sound good, what will sound great?

Answer: Paradigm!

The new version 4 Monitor series sound killer. Much smoother top end than the Klipsch horn sound and much better mid-range. The Monitor 11s are monsters! Bonus points to Paradigm for making them look as good as they sound.

If the lower priced Monitor series are this good, I can't even imagine how good the Studio series must sound with the 990.

Glad you like your speaks K-Man..now about that Velodyne sub.. :p . You can't go wrong with the LFM for the $$$$. It's an awesome sub and you will be very happy- when you are ready , of course.

I just got back from a business trip and have had some time to really exercise my system. I can enthusiastically recommend Magnepan speakers. They also offer a "toe in the water" method of trying them out. You can order their smaller MMG series of speakers online for $500. If you don't like 'em, you send 'em back. You can also trade them in on other Maggie speakers and apply the $500 to the cost of the new speakers.

A friend of mine was using the MMG's with TACT gear and I liked the sound. So I replaced my aging Dahlquist DQ-20i's with a pair of Magnepan 1.6/QR speakers. The detail and soundstage are absolutely amazing. They are easily the best sounding speaker I've ever owned and they pair perfectly with the Outlaw LFM-1 subs I have.

The only real drawback is the size. They're about 5ft tall and about 19" wide. If that's not an issue for you, I'd say you owe it to yourself to listen to a pair.

Cheers,

Ritz,

How's the "timbre" problem with the Magnepan mains and the Definitive center? Do you notice anything unpleasant or even unusual as the sound moves across the center?

I haven't noticed any issue at all with the "mismatch" of the DT and Maggie speakers. And the DT center is a LOT easier on the eyes (and space) than the Magnepan center or an extra MMG thrown in the center. My original plan was to just buy a half dozen MMGs and use them for everything, but it just seemed a bit overbearing in terms of the space taken up by speakers in the room and I liked the sound of the 1.6 over the MMG for the mains.

I'd always been told that the Maggies were really weak in the bass department, but I'm not finding that to be an issue at all. I've got the crossover set at 40hz and the gain on the LFM-1's set to between 2 and 3. That fills out things nicely in 2-channel mode (you don't really even realize the subs are there...which is perfect) and I still get floor shaking LFE for movies.

Cheers,