Gonk, yes I did, and I have nothing but praises for Outlaw customer support. I called them twice and each of the time I got someone on the phone within a minute. They listened to me very attentively and offered advices, but at the end they came to the same clonclusion as I did.

The Outlaws concluded that: "Anyone who really thinks of putting this thing in the same league with the Anthem, Lexicon or for god sake a high end receiver such as HK needs some real professional help?"

That I find hard to believe.

High frequency noise from the tweeters? Sounds like a low end receiver? Well, I'm glad you found a pre/pro you like now in the Aragon but those comments do a real dis-service to the unit I am listening to.

I've demo'd a lot of equipment and the 990 is equal to some of the lowest noise floors I've heard. This is vs. B&K, Arcam, Myryad and Citation. It's close enough in sound quality to these to be closer to a matter of personal preference than glaring flaws to determine the decision IMO. I've also listened 'middle to high end' receivers: Denon 3803 and Pio 45TX (although no H/K admittedly), and it's certainly an improvement in sound quality from these.

I'm also not an Outlaw fanboy. I've demo'd their equipment twice before this and returned it. First the 950, then the 7100. Well priced units but I felt justified in paying a little more for something I liked better in both cases. I was pleasantly surprized by the 990 though and will likely be keeping it.

Maybe you have a defective unit, setup problems or just don't find the 990's sound to your liking. But, any more extreme hyperbole and I think it's time to call shenanigans!

I don't own any Outlaw equipment and it was very clear to me from the start that this guy just wanted to stir up some shit. Pathetic really.

Pythagore, this is the last I will have to say about this because engaging in this conversation is like beating my head against a wall. You can't help those who refuse to be helped.

Please read this AVS thread, page 4, where Razvanel (a Outlaw Basher for years and has been banned from the 2nd largest HT/Audio forum because of his over the top hatred towards Outlaw) proudly mentions your "review" to rub it in to Outlaw owners. After reading your entire review, about 5 or 6 posts later he even concedes that you don't know what you are doing.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=548867
So, you can believe what you want or you can believe the people and experts who have been in this hobby for a long, long time.

It's statements like these: that make people who understand this stuff either laugh at you or shake their head. If you can't understand the glaring flaws in your statements then you should go back and study how to calibrate a system since you refuse to take advice from anyone. Just look at every post that has responded to you. The one thing they have in common is that most are trying to help correct your confusion about db levels, yet you choose to throw out your education credentials as if to say you can't be wrong since you are so smart.

Congratulations on your engineering degree, but if their curriculum was based on teaching you how to be an expert in handling HT processors then I would demand my money back. Seriously.

great post jed ....

to tell you about jed .. he is not bias i have read his reviews and comments on other forums .. he is not a outlaw hyper as i am not .. i have to say for the money this is a great product and i have auditioned very (high end ) components and find no clear winner or better unit till the 5999 $ audio control meastro .. pyth you never commented after i listed my prior expirience of prepro s and recievers as pre pros .. all we want to do is help you .. i can tell you this unit is better than the HK7300 as a prepro and that is hk's flagship .. i am a hk fan as a reciever the hk7300 is hard pressed to beat ,,, and yes i understand the efficiency of the klipsch u are using .. but these newer klipsch are not near the speakers they used to make .. 15 to 20 years (even less) ago you wouldnt see klipsch in a best buy .. now u do .. they are no longer as proud as they used to be ... note that i was a die hard klipsch fan born and raised.. sorry thats kind of irrelevant but you are comparing a aragon 4000 dollar unit to the 990 at 1100 and trying to bash it.. well your speaker choice isnt near the 4000 $$ level.. maybe your amp is lacking.. i've been a audio visual freak for years and the db and ref listening garbage is just that to me .. ive heard systems thats specs are amazing and sound pathetic .. and seen specs that arent so big sound great .. all in all .. all of this is personal preference .. some people love tube sound some dislike it ..


bottom line .. if you dont like your 990 return it .. im sure scott and the outlaw folks wouldnt mind .. but please dont come bashing .. QUOTE .. a low end reciever is better .. but in your own words.. many of us love our 990 .. and i am a first time buyer .. i was set on the emo big dog till i got my 990 .. i was figuring the 990 would not meet my expectations .. well it did ..i am truely sorry it didnt meet yours .. a simple it wasnt my taste would have been fine .. not a bunch of slander.. im sure you didnt like my comments about your klipsch ... (a little taste of how we feel about your comments about our 990's )

pyth i noticed the reply i was speaking of was in another thread so this is it.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pythagorn ... i've used several prepro's of past and today.. olden days pre digital was adcom gsa700 then added the gdd1 digital processor to go digi.. then used a marantz 600 with their digi decoder.. bounced awhile then used a HK sig 2.0 and 2.1 .. ok then decided prepros were not keeping up with tech for awhile .. so went to recievers as prepros .. used hk7300 , onkyo801 (great for price) . ... hk 310 ... the rest of my system is a ATI 1506 bridged to 3x300 for my tannoy d6c center and tannoy dmt12II mains .. then i have a adcom gfa 545 pushing tannoy saturn8 floorstanders in rear.. oh .. i was a huge klipsch guy for years .. k horn's and forte's are two of the best speakers ever created in thier $$ range and beyond a bit .. i've heard the ref's .. if you ever wanted to upgrade speakers and still have a klipsch sound tannoy dual concentric style speakers would be what you want to audition.. the wave guide system gives a comp horn type sound but takes some harshness away.. but tannoy's are not cheap .. but if you ever had a chance check em out ... oh and i have auditioned the emo big dogs .. very impressive .. but even after hearing them i am still more impressed with my outlaw / ati ... 2 channel the outlaw hands down .. but HT the emo is a maybe a tad better .. but you must realize the emo is a 2500+ prepro .. pyth if i had bunches of cash i would have to say the audio control maestro is the most impressive prepro ive heard but at $5999 my wife would have my a__!! i am not a nad or even a anthem fan .. they seemed compressed .. well not the anthem d1 but that again is getting into another ball park price wise...

Pythagore: I will reiterate what I said in my first post, that the HK 525 outplayed the 990 that was sent to me in every sens of the word. I just bought an Aragon Stage One, neither the 990 or the HK come close to this beast.

So, what's the problem?

You didn't like the 990, got something else, and Outlaw agreed to take the 990 back.

So, what's the problem?

Shipping and currency exchange fees giving you the blues? Sorry, but it's not Outlaw's fault you don't live in the U.S. Frankly, with all the hassles to ship to Canada from the U.S. (yes, been there, done that) I'd consider that they did you a rather big favour in sending a 990 your way.

I happen to like my 990 very, very much, and don't think I could have done better for less than $5-$6k. Dead silent with no input, and gentle turn on. A very, very, little bright on the highs, perhaps, but far better than anything up to (and beyond) three times the price. Output padded down -8 dB across all channels (my sub has a level control) to get THX reference levels at 0 dB "on the dial". FWIW, I run an Odyssey Audio Stratos Plus amp into my front Bohlender-Graebner Radia 520i, and use a custom Acoustic Visions Q=0.6 sealed 96l sub with a Dayton Titanic Mk. II 12" driver and Hypex HS-200 sub amp.

Outlaw does not owe you a pre/pro that you like, at any price.

What they do owe you is to stand behind their conditions of sale, which, with their 30 day full refund period, are extremenly generous. And, I think they've kept that part of the bargain admirably, from what you've posted. Heck, if they charged a 15% restocking fee, they'd likely still lose money on returns, even if they could resell them full price as A stock (which they can't) because of restocking and repackaging labour and overhead. Do you think Outlaw could remain in business if they sold crap, and we were all shills? For a year perhaps, maybe two. Certainly not long enough to evolve their product lines.

From the equipment lists described here, quite a few 990 owners could easily spend five or perhaps even ten times as much on a pre/pro. They have chosen not to. They didn't buy the 990 as a price/performance compromise for lack of funds, I suspect. They bought it because it offered the best performance at any reasonable price.

It is entirely possible that your 990 was defective, and that Outlaw has quality control problems. I've read others having trouble setting their 990s up, and some complaints over the years (I've been lurking here over a year before I decide to purchase my 990) -- M200 monoblocks cutting off the high end and various units exhibiting power transformer buzz.

You know what? Sony, that over-priced bastion of Japanese consumer electronics, has lousy Q/C too, based on what I've seen over the years. Shit happens. I've been lucky: all my Sony TVs over the years have performed flawlessly: I had a 30" XBR for over 12 years.

At the end of the day, one has to take all the positive and negative opinions formed about a company and decide if one wants to do business with them -- if the risks are worth it. Based solely on what I've read in reviews, I'd probably never buy an M200 amp, for example. Pity, because I'd really like it to be a good amp, even at double the price. My mind might be swayed if I heard one, and I needed two channels of amplification recently, but deep down, I think I'd not be satisfied, and it would be a waste of every one's time and money if I ordered one, only to send it back.

I'd like to think that you ordered your 990 in good faith, and were just disappointd, for whatever reason. Though, if you were considering an Aragon, and ended up getting it in the end (likely having auditioned it before hand), it sure smells that you just wanted to save some money, and hoped the Outlaw 990 would serve as well, using the slightest excuse to send it back and justify the increased cost of the Aragon (which you really wanted all along). I suspect that if you kept the 990, you'd always wonder if the Aragon wouldn't be better, and be upset at the slightest perceived problem. Never mind wanting something as good as the Aragon for less money, I'll boldly guess that you wanted something noticably better for less money, and wound up disappointed. Such speculation on my part is risky, of course: I can't know your intentions, but you sure come off as having thought that way, having the same kind of prejudiced opinion about the 990 that I have about the M200 (and I openly admit to having prejudged it based on reports and reviews). The difference is that I didn't go and order something about which I had preconcieved misgivings (quite possibly unjustified), and kvetch about it, even after the vendor tried to help, and ultimately offered to refund my money. Knowing Outlaw, your money was likely refunded "cheerfully".

Fortunately, for Outlaw, while their amps don't seam to fit my standards, their pre/pro does. Unlike you, I can't afford an Aragon pre/pro today, but needed a pre/pro soon, and so, was somewhat sensitive to price.

The Stratos Plus is Class A/AB, flat from 2 Hz to 400 kHz, sports a continuous damping factor in excess of 500, balanced and unbalanced inputs, and a distortion figure under 0.04%. It weighs around 54 lbs. (24.5 kg. for Pythagore's benefit), and costs around US$1200. It comes with a 20 year warranty (transferrable to the second owner), 30 day trial period (though $120 for two-way shipping would not be cheap), and like Outlaw, the manufactur sells direct.

I could "sit here" and kvetch and complain that the M200 isn't as good an amp as the Stratos Plus. I suppose if disparaging the M200 were my intent I might actually order one and audition it to lend some credence to such complaints. Outlaw might even agree that sonically, the Statos Plus was a better amp (and note the double price point for two channels). And you know, I really wanted the M200 to be "the amp for me": a pair of sleek and "sexy" monoblocks driving each of my Radia 520i, biamped. I'd start of with two and not biamp, and save $600 in the process. And, even if the M200 proved perfect, I'd be unhappy, always wondering if the Stratos Plus wouldn'tve been a better choice. Any slight problem with the M200 would become magnified in my mind until I couldn't stand it, and I'd not have the patience to try to get it resolved.

Is that you, Pythagore? Maybe not, but your continued complaints here certainly paint you that way.

I think Pythagore has been very level-headed and up-front in this thread. He didn't care for the 990. Outlaw stood behind their return policy and he returned it. The only downside is related to his geographical location and that added to the cost of his 990 audition.

I'm not surprised that you love the Aragon preamp, Pythagore. When I added an Aragon amp to my system it was a revelation. I can only guess that their preamps are in the same class. If my bank account was in a bit better shape, I'd probably be trying to find a Stage One to compare to my Outlaw 950. Ever since getting their amp, I've lusted after one of their preamps.

I'd love to try out a 990 but I'm afraid I'd like it and it's just not in the cards at this time. Sigh.

I think Pythagore has been very level-headed and up-front in this thread. He didn't care for the 990. Outlaw stood behind their return policy and he returned it. The only downside is related to his geographical location and that added a bit to the cost of his 990

I'd agree if Pythagore voiced his satisfaction with the whole experience: that is, he tried it, didn't like it, returned it, and got his money back. The choice to deal with cross-border hassles was entirely his.

I suspect his being in Canada added more than just a bit (e.g. shipping charges, and currency exchange spread and movement) to the costs. I'm not sure if it is possible to get the taxes and duties paid on imported goods easily refunded if the goods are subsequently returned in short order because they were unsatisfactory. In any case, he won't get the customs brokerage fee refunded. But, he should have known of these risks when dealing cross-border.