Greetings. I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but this is my first post.

I'm using the new Harmony 880 with the new Outlaw 990. I don't have the Harmony activities completely tweaked to my satisfaction, but generally the remote works very well controlling my system. The one problem I'm having is more irritating than serious.

When the A/V system is off and I select the "Watch a DVD" activity, all of the appropriate components turn on and are set to correct inputs, with the exception of the 990. It remains off (standby). If I press the Help button at this point, the 990 turns on - correctly set to the DVD input. I have to press Help every time in this situation... and I shouldn't have to.

This problem occurs with all activities when the system is off.

I'm guessing this problem has something to do with the 990's lack of a remote On button - and Harmony's lack of facility in dealing with this configuration.

I've tried manually setting up the power on/off commands, tried increasing the delay times (speed settings) for the 990. Nothing seems to change the problematic behavior.

Has anyone else on this forum experienced this problem? Has anyone found a solution?

Thanks,
-Brent

I've not used any of the Harmony remotes, so my advise may not help much. Having said that, does the activity include a step to select the correct input on the 990? That step should turn the 990 on (all input selection commands act as discrete on commands for the 990).

Is there any way to get into the individual "Device" commands for the 990 in the 880 and then have the "DVD" button selected somehow within the activity?

990? 880? It would only be fitting if you have the 770 also.

My only advice would be to ask on remotecentral.com. The wealth of remote control knowledge on that sight is staggering, not to mention somewhat scary.

You should call Harmony support. They're EXTREMELY helpful and will work with you on the phone until the remote works exactly the way you want it to.

If they don't have the proper command (unlikely, in my experience) they will stay on the phone with you while you train your Harmony using the 990 remote and then they're download the command to their database and fine-tune it for you if necessary.

Thanks for all the advice. I've already opened a ticket with Harmony Support via the web.

In response to gonk and PodBoy, the "Watch DVD" activity already contains a step to select the 990 DVD input. It works fine when the A/V system is already on but set to a different activity, say "Listen to CD."

The Harmony remotes keep track of whether each device is powered on. If a device needed for an activity is off, then the Activity tries to turn it on. This (I think) is where something is going wrong, since the "Watch DVD" activity works fine when the A/V system is already on.

Good suggestion on checking remotecentral.com. I'm going to head over there now!

Brent:

You really should CALL Harmony tech support. Those guys were GREAT with me when I was trying to get my 676 to work with my Xbox.

I'm sure they're good on their web support, but calling them is so much better. They're incredibly patient and incredibly helpful.

Brent,
I'm very familiar with Harmony remotes and I can probably talk you through this. I run my system from a Panamax 5100 so some of my recommendations may not apply to your system. By the way, if you don't have a Panamax, get one. It's the only way to fly, it protects your system and simplifies the process of switching your system on and off because of the 12V trigger and switched outlets. The first thing I'd suggest is that you install new batteries in your Harmony on the off chance that the 990 isn't receiving a strong enough signal. You should have your 990 turn on first in any activity sequence. If you're not doing this then I'd change all your activities to make this happen. I'm not familiar with the 990 remote but you say that it doesn't have a button that toggles the unit on/off. How does the 990 remote turn the unit on?

You will have to go to the 'Teach New Commands' section or to the prompt where it asks 'Do you know which button on the remote turns the 990 on/off?' you enter the 'Standby' command. If the 'Standby' is not an option , that is when you have to go the 'Teach New Commands' section - if I remember correctly.

I just purchased a Harmony H659 from Costco $94.00. In the process of setting it up, the unit did not list the input my TV uses for DVD. I called Harmony tech support and the were very helpful. The tech setup my complete system while I was on the phone and all I had to do was go online and download the update. All functions worked properly and controlls my 990 exactly as I wanted. I rate Harmony customer service right up there with the Outlaws.

Brent, keep us posted on the outcome. I am probably going to wind up with the 880 as well. Harmony will get it solved. It looks like Paratrooper's H659 is doing the job.

Brent, I am using the Harmony 676 with my 990 and experienced problems similar to yours (I'm assuming the 880 programming is similar). I had to go into the 'adjust power settings' for the 990 and change the power on command to 'InputVideo1'. I also had to change the power on delay to about 4 seconds otherwise the 990 would not receive the input select command that follows the power on command. I tried setting the power on command to a blank command knowing that the following input select command would power on the 990 (trying to avoid that 4 second delay) but this did not work. I assume the Harmony loses it's stateful information if there is not a power on or power toggle type command assigned.

Keep us posted on what you find, there has got to be a better way to handle the power on for the 990.

The 659 doesn't have Watch a DVD button, it has watch a movie button. I press Watch a Movie button and, the TV turns on to the correct input, the DVD player turns on, and the 990 turns on with DVD input selected. Call Harmon Tech Support and tell them what you want to happen when you press the Watch a DVD button, and they can make a macro that you can download.

I checked out RemoteCentral.com. No help there.
Harmony Support emailed back, but they haven't proposed a useful solution yet.

I really should call Harmony Support to get more immediate help... hopefully I'll get to that tonight or tomorrow.

AzRJ, the 4 second power on delay may be why some of my attempted workarounds were unsuccessful! I tried up to 3 seconds, but not higher.

I tried setting the 990 device power on command to "None," but this causes the setup to turn off the power state management for the 990!

For now I have a functioning workaround. I went into the Harmony Web Setup for the Outlaw 990 device and changed the power settings. I told the setup that the 990 has separate buttons for power on and power off. Then told the setup to learn the power on and power off commands. For the power off command, I used the actual Power Off button on the 990 remote. For the Power On command, I used a command from an extra remote (for an old laserdisc player) which does not affect any component in my system. Basically, a dummy command.

So now, when the system is off and I select the "Watch a DVD" activity, the Harmony Remote sends the dummy power on command for the 990, but it is ignored by all devices in the system. Then a Select DVD Input command is sent for the 990. This command tells the 990 to power on and switch to the DVD input.

It also gets around having to set a really long power on delay, as in AzRj's configuration.

Now, obviously this is a workaround - not a real solution. But it works perfectly and will get me by until Harmony can fix the root cause.

Brent, That's actually a really good workaround. I tried the "none" power command but I never tried to learn a dummy On command as you did. Getting rid of my power on delay will make my Harmony nearly perfect.
Thanks
RJ

A quick update on this issue...

I exchanged emails with Harmony Support and finally followed up with a phone call today. boblinds is quite correct: Harmony Support is excellent.

I'm thrilled to say Harmony Support has resolved the problem - a tweak to their setup software now allows a clean setup.

Here are the steps need to correctly configure the power setting for the Outlaw 990:

From the Harmony Report User Home Page, find the Outlaw 990 device and click on the "More Options" link. This takes you to the Device Options page for the Outlaw 990. Click on the "Adjust power settings" link. This will take you into the device setup wizard.

1. Do you want to leave your Stereo Receiver on all the time?
Choose: I want to turn off this device when it's not in use

2. How do you turn your Stereo Receiver on and off with your current remote control?
Choose: A button on the remote for On, and a different button for Off

3. Select Power On Command
Choose: Use these infrared commands: -None-

A big warning will appear: No command was selected. Are you sure? Blah Blah Blah
Click the "Yes" button.

4. Select Power Off Command
Choose: Use these infrared commands: PowerOff

Proceed through the check, download to your remote, and test.

Optional: You can also speed up the power on sequence for any activity by decreasing the Power On Delay for the Outlaw 990. Since there really isn't a power on command, this could probably be set to anything... 500 ms works just fine for me.

Ok, I have a Harmony 676 and, for me, this configuration results in the same problem BrentG describes in the opening post with the troubling exception that pressing the Help button does not turn the 990 on (nor does answering No repeatedly to its "Is the 990 now on?"). So if the activity I choose to turn everything on is the same as the last activity chosen when everything was turned off, the 990 will not turn on. I take it this is because with this configuration there is no Power On command and the Harmony doesn't bother to send the corresponding input command (which would power on the 990) since it "assumes" that it doesn't have to because that was the 990's last selected input anyway.

The workaround when this happens is easy enough: select a different activity simply to turn the 990 on, then reselect the original activity.

So if I understand this correctly, we're selecting None for Step 3 above because to select the Power On command (or any command, for that matter) would mean having to add a delay of at least 4 seconds prior to any necessary subsequent input selection command?

Think I'll try BrentG's previous "dummy" command workaround in the meantime.

Ok, after trying several things including going back to adding a 4 sec power on delay, none worked. I don't understand why pressing the Help button doesn't power on the 990. I thought the first time you press Help causes the Harmony to issue proper input commands to each of the devices used for a particular activity. If so, this should power on a 990 in standby, shouldn't it? Yet when I press the Device button on the Harmony, select the 990, and select the desired input, the 990 powers on as it should. This tells me that pressing the Help button does not, in fact, send any input selection command to the 990?

As Vinnie Barbarino would say, "I'm soooo confused!"

hawaii2000,

I ran into the problem you describe recently, too:
The Harmony remote does not send the input command if it thinks the 990 is already set to the input you are selecting. As you reported, this results in the 990 not turning on if you used the Harmony remote to turn it off while it was set to the same input you want at power on.

This is rather irritating for me, since I use a DVDO video processor/scaler to switch video inputs and I route the digital audio output of the DVDO to a single coax digital input on the 990... So the problem occurs whenever I choose an activity while the system is off. In my case, pressing Help DOES resolve the problem.

I think this is a new Harmony bug - I was definitely not getting this behavior 2 weeks ago. I don't remember exactly when it started, but it was after I did an update to tweak one of the activities.

I was planning to call Harmony support for the last two days, but my schedule has been a bit full. Hopefully, today I'll be able to call.

Please post an update if you speak to Harmony Support.

Thanks,
-Brent

I contacted Outlaw support this morning. They were able to resolve the problem for my account - but this is not a change which can be made by the user.

For now, 990 / Harmony users will need to contact Harmony Support to have the same change made to their account. The number is 1-866-291-1505 in the US and Canada.

The technician advised that by sometime next week, the change will be promoted to the device level - anyone adding the Outlaw 990 device to their setup after that point will get the correct behavior. Users who already have the Outlaw 990 device in their configuration will have to contact Harmony support or remove the Outlaw 990 from their Harmony setup and add it back.

I want to reiterate boblinds comments about Harmony phone support, they have been great. eMail support is much slower, so definitely go with the phone support if that is an option for you.

-Brent

I'm glad to hear you guys had the same experience with Harmony support that I did. They now join Outlaw IMO as representing the best support in the business.

By the way, when you press Help, I don't think the Harmony sends ANY commands, it just initiates the Q&A procedure on the screen. It's when you answer those questions that the Harmony sends commands. So as you answer the questions, you have to make sure the remote it pointed at the appropriate device (or at least positioned to send IR to the device. I can point mine at the ceiling and it "talks" to everything in the room. A very powerful remote.)

BrentG, thanks for that update. Having Harmony promote that change to the device level will, I hope, do the trick. I have had to contact their tech support in the past and I can concur they are great.

boblinds, I know that my Harmony sends input commands upon first pressing the Help button because if any of my devices happen to be set to the wrong input, pressing Help tries to correct this by sending various input select commands to all the relevant devices and immediately asks "Did that Fix the problem?" If it hasn't (and you answer No), then it proceeds to ask questions about the state of specific devices and behaves as you describe.

I'll be darned. Thanks Hawaii! I'll have to watch for this with my 676.

UPDATE: As expected, Hawaii is absolutely right. I never noticed before that the Harmony sends commands when you hit the Help key. Boy. I feel stupid. Fortunately, it isn't an unfamiliar feeling.

Last night I submitted a trouble ticket thru the Harmony website and this morning I received an e-mail stating that they just "updated the newer version of the outlaw 990" and for me to remove the 990 from my setup and re-add it and reconfigure my activities.

Haven't tried it yet but I will when I get home from work.

UPDATE: Everything works as it should now!