I understand if I'm listening to a CD on the CD input and I have the CD input configured to use a digital input (in my case, optical 1), I can hit the "stereo" button on the remote to switch between Stereo, Bypass, Upsample, etc. The manual says that both Bypass and Stereo route signal to the fronts and sub (if present), but Bypass does not route through the DSP. But doesn't it have to route through the DACs? I don't think it's changing to the analog inputs (that I also have connected), because the front display still reads Optical 1. So do I understand correctly that Bypass still uses the DACs, but avoids any other digital manipulation, while Stereo puts it through the rest of the DSP chain? And does the Bypass split the signal between the fronts and the sub in the analog domain, while Stereo does it in the digital domain?

Mark

We may have to get some help from Outlaw to get the full picture on the analog bypass behavior - the only time I tried it, I enabled it in the input menu for some tinkering and set the input to analog first. I have been under the impression that it behaves basically the same as the 950's stereo analog bypass did, which would mean that the left and right analog inputs are passed through volume control and out to the pre-amp outputs with no A/D conversion while at the same time a copy of the data was converted to digital and passed through the bass management software to generate a subwoofer signal.

Thanks, gonk. The only thing is, that would imply that there needs to be analog inputs in order to have bypass actually do its thing. But I (at least I'm almost certain) tried running from the CD player to the 990 via an optical cable, with no analog input, and bypass was still available. So is it taking the digital signal, DAC'ing it to analog, and outputting to the fronts and sub? If so, when in the chain is the sub signal created, analog or digital domain?

Mark

The sub signal must be created in the digital domain - there is not an analog crossover circuit in the 990 that I am aware of, so the crossover applied to generate the sub signal has to be digital.

I noticed my sub (passive/no internal crossover) was sounding odd when using the analog cd inputs so I did some testing. I noticed that both the fronts and the sub receive a full range signal in the bypass mode. When I switched to a digital input, things work as Gonk described (full range signal to the fronts and bass managed signal to the sub). The Stereo and Upsample modes also appear to pass a full range signal to the sub when using the analog inputs.

I am now using a digital (optical) input for my CD player (as Outlaw support recommended) and things sound great.

It's that sort of behavior that spawned my question originally. The problem is, it's hard to compare the player's DAC to the 990's if the speakers are not really getting the same signal. What I did, though, was to run the 5.1 analog outs of my universal player into the 7.1 direct input, and then, with a stereo CD source, compared the sound with an optical feed from the player into the CD input.

Mark

Here's the answer from Scott about this. For a digital input from a stereo source, the "stereo" mode applies all the choices you've selected, such as bass management, speaker delays, etc. In "bypass" mode, bass management is still applied, but not the other DSP functions. Works the same for the analog inputs. For the 7.1 inputs, bass management is applied (and no other DSP stuff) but it will not be applied if you have chosen all the speakers to be large, in which case you'll get no bass management (that is, the only signal to the sub will be the .1 signal).

I forgot to ask whether it is like gonk suggested, where for analog inputs set to bypass the speaker signals are passed through unaffected while a copy is AD'd to generate the sub signal.

The bottom line, though, is that bass management is always effective whenever you have chosen small speakers, regardless of whether your input is digital or analog, and regardless of the mode chosen (stereo, bypass, upsample, 5 chan. stereo, etc.).

Please correct me if I got this wrong, Scott. Thanks.

Mark

This is correct. This is because of Outlaw's analog bass management. Most receivers/processors won't provide any subwoofer action in bypass or outside of what is intended to be LFE in 7.1. Personally I love this feature, but some feel it messes with the purity of the signal.

If I connect my CD player to the 990 using the analog inputs, my Sub receives a full range signal for stereo, bypass, and upsample modes regardless of the speaker size and crossover settings. I discoverd this while setting up my system with a spectrum analyzer and confirmed this by connecting a full range speaker to my sub amp. Scott at Outlaw confirmed this behavior as well.

If I use an digital connection for my CD, everything works as described by grok above.

Personally, i've found that sonically, it is almost always better to connect thru analog interconnects, that way, each component sounds they way it was designed and intended to sound, and the Outlaw, just lets it pass on thru with no alteration of the signal.

readster, this was my thinking as well. Unfortunatly, my sub is passive (no internal crossover) and really draws attention to itself when I use the analog connections for the CD. The good news is, the digital connections sound really good. Also, it was Steve at Outlaw that confirmed this behavior (sorry about the mistype above).

So, is this bass management on the 7.1 input pretty much like having an ICBM inside the 990?

I would guess so, except that it's digital and not analog, thus necessitating an extra D/A conversion.

I did some testing with my Denon 3910 over the weekend, using the 990's BM vs. the Denon's BM & the 990's speaker set-ups set to Large. I preferred the Denon's sound, but I think it's more because there were less conversions than that it's BM is better. If I send 24-bit/192kHz sound out my 3910's analog outs, I'd like to know it didn't get D/A'd again before it reached my ears. But I *want* the 990's BM using my digital sources.

Personally, I'd like to see the ability to bypass BM on the 7.1 inputs but *not* the rest of the 990's inputs.

So who's correct?

I believe I am wrong. I stated that in another thread, but I forgot about this one.

ender21, can't you bypass the BM on the 7.1 inputs (by setting speakers to large), yet still have the BM not bypassed on the digital inputs by selecting any mode but bypass? That's what I did with my Denon 2910: I have it set with speakers to large and bass enhance on, so that the analog out and the 5.1 outs will have signal sent to the sub, but the digital outs are source direct. So I use the digital input on the CD input on the 990 for regular CDs if I want the BM of the 990 working, or use the 7.1 inputs if I want the Denon's BM working (like for SACDs or DVD-audios). I can also hit bypass mode on the digital input (CD input that is) if I want a pure bypassed signal with no BM from either machine.

At least, that's the way it seems to be working now, but there's so many choices to figure in I could be completely lost!

Good points grok. The 3910 is identical to your 2910 so I am trying to figure all that out myself. I think Source Direct will allow DSD to be passed without converting to PCM. I don't know whether to set all speakers to large on the Denon and make all distances the same or not. Do I set the crossover on the 3910 to a higher value than the Outlaw's highest setting for a particular speaker?

I don't want double bass management and double distance going on.

Gone are the days where you can hook up 2 speakers to your electrophonic 8 track receiver with tuner. It was so much simpler then!

My impression from Steve was that setting the speakers to Large on the 990 bypasses all BM on other inputs. Here's what he wrote to me:

If you'd like to disable the 990's bass management you must set all speakers to large in the speaker configuration menu. This will allow full analog pass through of direct analog inputs, however your other inputs will not have bass management applied.

I thought Source Direct was for analog outs only, and that it just sent the pure, unadulterated signal out the 5.1 outs, with no DSD > PCM processing of SACDs or bass management. The Digital outs wouldn't need Source Direct since they're sending bitstream (unless you've asked for them to do a PCM conversion). I haven't tried the Bass Enhance on my 3910 yet. How is it? I just figured it would add processing to the audio I don't want to have done. But admittedly I haven't fooled with it or read up on it.


Agreed, it's easy to get confused!!!

Rick