I would like to know the smallest increment available for setting speaker distance(delay) in the manual mode vs the auto setup mode.

I would also like to know the smallest increment available for setting volume levels in the manual mode vs the auto mode.

I've had processors in the past that used one foot increments for delay, but that was not a small enough increment to allow accurate setup when speaker location was already defined. When I began using a processor with one tenth of a foot increments the setup was virtually pinpoint.
This same thing was true with half db volume increments vs one db.

I was curious to know if one method of setup was more accurate then the other, and by what margin.

Greg,

I also want to know if the 990 will measure distances separately for surrounds and rears, something the 950 did not do and that I considered to be one of its design shortcomings.

Based on the newly-posted manual, it appears that the speaker distances are set in one foot increments, the trim levels are set in 1dB increments, and each individual channel (all seven speakers plus the subwoofer) has separate distance and trim settings.

That's a bummer

I started to spell out in somewhat sarcastic detail why I'm not upset about the inability to dial into to 0.5ft and 0.5dB increments, but I stopped. It was an argument based largely on an old college debate between my senior-level Experimental Techniques class and our rather insane professor (a man who claimed to be able to draw perfect lines and circles freehand and who insisted that anyone should be able to measure down to 1/64th of an inch with a scale whose smallest increment of measure was 1/8th of an inch). He took it as a personal offense that we refused to deviate from "undergraduate" uncertainty analysis that insisted you could not measure anything closer than one-half of the smallest gradation of your measuring device, even though the intended purpose of the class was to learn to conduct tests and experiments in a manner that followed the accepted rules of experimental technique. Needless to say, most of us found the class a bit exasperating.

The 1 foot and the 1dB increments are pretty standard, and at least in my experience they've been pretty effective. A few people may find that it deprives them of an extra bit of fine control over system setup, but in most cases I don't see that it will do any harm at all. The real good news here, though, is the discrete distance settings for all eight channels - this is something that the 950 lacked due to limited processing power, and something that I think many people will find very helpful.

Thanks,I did't notice that the manual was released.

The manual reads as we see here but that does not answer my question. I would still like to know if the auto setup is more accurate. perhaps it uses a higher internal resolution to set the delays and volume levels, ultimately providing a more accurate setting. Perhaps this question can't be answered at this time.

When positioning speakers using an in/out of phase test tone, a couple of inches can make a big change in the swing of an SPL meter. If one's speaker positions are defined and you must use delays, two or three tenths of a foot can make the difference between a radical swing and none at all.

Although this is not a critical point to everyone it can make a huge difference in the stereo soundfield. I've seen this first-hand.

I agree that it is critical to have all speakers adjustable. Not everyone has a dedicated room or a forgiving SO.

The half db volume increments are not as important to me.

Greg,

I think you hit it on the head . Someone is going to have to test drive this thing in a home environment to truly answer your question . Anything else is just speculation . But fear not I am sure you will hear all about it in a few short weeks .

If you think you need 0.5-foot increments in the delays, just be very, VERY sure that you put your head in a restraining device, because any slight movement of your ears will destroy the accuracy of the imaging.

Twisted One:

I have to agree with boblinds. I'm new here, but have been around stereo and home theater for quite a while. Do you REALLY think that adjusting the sound field to 6 INCHES really makes a difference? And even if it did, do you listen all by yourself, or do you want something that includes someone who is outside your six inch bubble. You're kidding, right?

Have you ever done a blind test with those (very few and expensive) products that can resolve the delay down to 6 INCHES (!) to find out if you can hear the difference?

Then again, now stick with me on this one, YOU CAN MOVE THE SPEAKERS THREE INCHES AND YOUR SEATING POSITION THREE INCHES AND YOU HAVE SIX INCH RESOLUTION FOR THE DELAY.

Then again, you could listen using one of the many stereo preamps that offer delay time adjustments to 6 INCH increments, right?

Boblinds'

I,m working on that device right now.


Podboy,

No, tenth inches.
Yes/no.
No, I've never been blind.
I don't know what that means.
I do, but its eight channels and in tenths of a foot.


All,

It's a good thing I was just asking a question and not seeking unanimous agreement.

Still wondering.....

Greg,

From which ear? (just curious)

Sanjay,

Neither, an SPL meter.

Greg,

"Yes/No": Can't be both, has to be one or the other.

"don't know what it means": Easy: you are talking about "0.5 foot". It may be me, but half a foot is six inches. Who knows, YMMV.

"tenth inches": You're kidding, right? I agree with Sanjay. Which ear are you setting the distance to, as that has a resolution of almost six inches. (I'm a fat head!)

"Don't know what that means". Easy, again. If the 990 (and most every other processor or receiver) doesn't give you resolution below a foot using electronic correction, so stay with me on this, MOVE THE SPEAKER OR THE CHAIR to compensate for the differental.

Greg, Fair enough. When measuring, it's not impossible to get to within a tenth of an inch from the centre of SPL meter's microphone to the centre of a speaker's tweeter. However, when listening to your system (all 8 speakers), which ear do you place where the SPL meter was? And is it the outside of your ear or your ear drum (valid question, since they are separated by more than a tenth of an inch).

All right guys, ease up a bit now. I think it's been made pretty clear around here lately that different things are important to different people.

Owl's_Warden,

Precisely, there is no point to this counterproductive banter. In the future I'll only review this thread for something substantive.

The question still remains unanswered. Anybody?

Greg,

Yes, back to the question... I assume that's the question of whether the auto setup offers finer control than manual setup, right?

I obviously haven't been able to try it, but from what I can tell in the manual (page 28 in particular), it would appear that the auto setup will "fill in the blanks" on the setup screens that would be used for a manual configuration - which makes me assume that there is no finer control afforded by using auto setup. That makes sense from another standpoint - if the auto setup were able to use smaller increments, it would make sense to offer those same adjustment increments for manual control. Until we start getting units in our hands to test (or Shawn has a chance to try auto setup and report his findings), that's the best answer I can come up with.

LOL

Very funny, Twisted.

Seriously, I agree that you can absolutely hear small differences as you move your head from side to side, but in real world conditions, one-foot increments are just fine (probably even too small to be realistic, actually.)

Understand that films are often mixed in large soundstages/theaters where the engineers aren't sitting at one-foot tolerances. In fact, they ordinarily aren't using delays at all. The delay is a home theater device designed to help recreate the large theater experience and the speaker distances involved in those settings.

In short, since I think our ultimate goal is to reproduce film sound as accurately as possible (or multichannel audio) I think there is a lot more "slop" in the process than delay distances of less than one foot. MUCH more slop.

In general, I think home theater listeners using the foot settings in their pre/pros tend to OVERuse the delay. I've always found that reducing the amount of delay a bit from the pre/pro "sanctioned" settings tends to lock in a more solid surround image and give the sound more punch and intensity. So I usually start with the pre/pro footage settings and then reduce the amount of rear delay until I get the sound I like from my listening position. (Other people in the room are on their own. )

That's what I have been hearing in my current system! SLOP!

Maybe it needs new ball joints..