But is it oxygen free, grain oriented thermostat wire?



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The Soundhound Theater

The following link to AudioQuest's site shows their thoughts on cables in general and on bi-wiring.

http://www.audioquest.com/theory/cable_theory.html

I found it to be a pretty interesting read.

I recently bi-wired by Monitor Audio 5i's using the older hyperlitz version of the AudioQuest Slate. I purchased the wires and originally installed them in a normal single run configuration (non bi-wired). I then bought some good quality spades and converted them to an internal bi-wire. To be completely honest, I'm not sure if I hear any difference or not since I've changed them to bi-wire. (That should tell you something.) I did hear some positive differences when I changed to the better wires versus the cheap stuff that I have previously used. (wider and deep soundstage)

My guess is that if you didn't like the sound you got with the BetterCables in a single run, I doubt that you're going to like them as a bi-wire either. You might want to return what you've bought and try another brand or get some demo wires from a local dealer. Also, don't judge the wires too early. Supposedly, most better quality wires need to burn-in and may not sound good at all when originally connected, but, after running for a while, open up and smooth out. We're dealing with interactive systems and the wires that sound good to you in your system will be dependent on the components in your system and on your ears.

Personally, I think that wires can make a difference in the sound being reproduced. Before I'd jump into spending a considerable sum on some new bi-wire cables, I think that I'd install some decent quality interconnects (~$15-$25)and buy some moderately priced used speaker cables. I've heard bigger differences when replacing interconnects than I have speaker cable.(check out ebay and audiogon) If you don't like them, sell 'em to someone else and buy another pair.

Chris

I love my bettercables. But seeing as I was finalizing some upgrades, I was wondering about the biwiring.

My master series i was using previously definitely conveyed a harsher sound to any highs. Everything sounds a little more laid back now, with the bass being just a tad deeper and tighter. Very pleased with the Premium II cables

Thanks for the input.

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Play it LoUd!!

Look no further than Outlaw for decent interconnects.

I've been out of town and I'm coming in a little late here, but there are few things in audio that I understand LESS than the supposed advantages of bi-wiring. Which, if I understand correctly, consists of running two parallel sets of wire from an amp channel to a two-or-more-way speaker. At the speaker end, you are still sending the signal into a passive crossover of some description, right? So nothing of substance changed there by bi-wiring. At the amp end, the wires are electrically connected to each other, right? Then logically, the only even theoretically possible advantage is lower resistance, yet as others have said, a single 10- or even 12-gauge stranded copper wire pair with decent insulation will measure negligible resistance to speaker loads over any reasonable run length. On my upper-level-consumer-grade ohmeter, I measure zero resistance on my six-foot run of 10-gauge stranded copper.

If "collapsing magnetic fields from bass signals ... induce distortion in the upper frequencies", etc. etc., this is going to happen anyway as bi-wiring is neither electrically isolating the signals nor physically moving the upper frequency speaker inputs further from the bass.

As others have said, perhaps those who have noticed improvement have been using crummy wire to start with (I can believe that bi-wiring lamp zip cord, for example, could measurably lower resistance compared with a single pair). VERY long wire runs might also be occasion for bi-wiring. Another possible reason for perceived improvement is the simple act of changing the connection. I believe that most of our friction-based audio connections degrade electrically due to minute amounts of surface oxidation. Every couple of months, I simply pull out and then reinsert each of my connectors, and I would swear that I SOMETIMES notice a slightly cleaner signal.

On the other hand, I believe that depending on the speakers and especially the design of their crossover, one CAN achieve audible improvement by bi-amping, whereby the bass and treble signals are more or less de-coupled at the amp end. (For those with the 5, 6 and 7-speaker systems, I would say that audible results would only be achieved on the "main" speakers, and only then if they are set to "large" and are in themselves of high quality). Of course, unless the amps are truly identical, bi-amping does introduce a complex new set of paramters in terms of volume and frequency matching. I bi-amped for some years (roughly 1973-1988) on my two-channel music system, and all of my audio friends concurred that there was audible improvement in clarity and attack or transient response. I stopped because with my next set of speakers, improved and much more complex crossover design both reduced the potential improvement, and made it very difficult to accurately match gain settings on the two amps.

I read somewhere on the internet(so it must be true that bi-wiring was "discovered" when a bi-amped system, which had been determined to have an improved sound, was analyzed. They replaced components one by one and lo and behold found that the one thing that made the most difference was the effect of the bi-wire, not the bi-amp.

I have bi-wired my current set up, and as I already stated earlier find no noticeable improvement over my lower quality single wire. And again, its not like I never hear the improvements from tweaks, just not from this one. Maybe if I spent more money?

YMMV

I have used "true" bi-amping for a couple decades, and frankly am amazed that "passive bi-amping" and "bi-wiring" even exist. Of these, passive bi-amping at least could offer some benefit, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just adding another layer of electronics in the signal path for questionable benefit.

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The Soundhound Theater

I have B&W's, which I used to run bi-wired(LCR)using Audioquest Crystal (I believe that's what it was). I no longer do. I hear no difference. B&W has always been a big proponent of bi-wiring and design most of their line to allow for it. What are the benefits? Here's what they have to say on this subject. To be honest, I don't think I really buy into their theory as to why they believe it is best to bi- wire. Note that they say "keen' listeners should hear a difference. Maybe your hearing is keen enough to discern the difference- who knows. (They also offer their thoughts on bi-amping. Soundhound-- don't read-- they used entirely too much ink talking about those pesky tube amps ).
Personally, I think you should try it. You may find it makes a positive improvement in your system. If you find it does nothing for you, at least you won't have to wonder if you are missing out. (Maybe your friend still has his set around and would let you try them- if they are of suitable length). Bottom line-- only your ears can really answer this question.

You suppose the old "snake oil" salesmen really did go into the hi-fi business?

The whole tweek-ism thing has it's roots in the early days of Hi-Fi, around 1950. At that time, sound was more an interactive hobby, and constructing your own gear was the norm. The great debate of the day was whether triode or pentode vacuum tubes were better. The thing is, during this time, there WERE obvious sound differences between components. For instance, the difference between triode and pentode topology was real, could be measured, and plainly heard.

Unfortunately, this period also gave birth to the "my ears are better than yours" snobbery that pervades some wine tasting circles. This mentality has persisted to this day. A visit to any high-end audio "salon" is apt to be greeted with a sizing up of your "aural chops" and how much money you have to spend.

As components have matured, they have become much more "monolithic" and less able to be customized, at least in the way they were in the 1950s. So what is a poor audiophile/HT buff to do when he/she gets the urge to tweak? What are you going to do in an age when components are more "black boxes", than something with parts you can actually see and touch? Well, things like "bi-wiring" offer ways that consumers can "tweak" without actully modifying the products. To make real changes requires electronics knowledge that most consumers don't posess. To do things like active bi-amping require the gutting of the crossover from a speaker, or the construction of the speaker system from scratch. Most people can't or won't do this.

THAT is what I believe things like "bi-wiring" are: a way to "tweak" in one of the few ramaining ways consumers have left, given the complexity of modern components. Manufacturers can position themselves as "high end" by supporting such practices. Cottage industries crop up to make money from questionable "tweaks": you can spend literally thousands of dollars on a simple speaker wire (oh, excuse me - interconnect) if so inclined. It has been called "audio jewelry", and I think that description fits.

Sorry for the rant---I feel much better now

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The Soundhound Theater

The 'tubistor' (SP?) thing was one of my personal favorites.