First off I've gotta say that on paper the 990 looks like yet another incredible deal from the Outlaws. But its not enough to make me want to trade in my 950.

Here's a few things that the 990 would give me that start to make it attractive:
- one more component video input
- some extra processing modes
- headphone jack
- phono input

But I can live comfortably without all of that for now since I have perfectly acceptable alternatives for all of them, except for the newer processing modes.

Here is the key feature that the 990 is missing:
- full-blown speaker set-up including state-of-the-art EQ.

I've previously posted on the Forum that such a capability was a definite need. Too bad the 990 does not have it. HOWEVER I will be keen to learn if a firmware upgrade in future can correct this ommission or not.

The other is HDMI switching. Sorry but DVI just ain't going to cut it. I want a unit that will last four years or so, and without HDMI the 990 is just not in the cards. This is not a simple firmware fix but perhaps future versions (the 990b perhaps?) will have it. It should have had the capability to start with.

I guess the bottom line is that I need to know a lot more about future upgradeability of the 990. Is it a platform for years to come - or just a stop-gap between now and then. If it's the latter then I can wait.

Jeff Mackwood

Not that this one thing makes a huge difference, but the 990 does have phono inputs. Although 950 owners who have a TT all bought phono preamps long ago.

As the Outlaws mentioned, HDMI specs are still not finalized, and probably won't be until after the HiDef DVD format war is over. And even then, who knows?

Balanced outs are a non-issue for me as I've already purchased all the required cables and tranformers to connect my pro audio electronic xovers. They would have been nice 3 years ago on the 950 though. That would have saved me $600 or so...

Personally, I also see it as a step up from the 950, but not a huge one. More of a stopgap to cover the next 4 years or so until some of these other issues are straightened out.

Jeff: I'm new to this but I read that there is a means presently out there for making DVI switch HDMI. I think it had to do with a cable for conversion of the format. Maybe you and gonk know if what I'm alluding to is correct. You do, however make good points in the following:

- one more component video input
- some extra processing modes
- headphone jack
- phono input

My response:
(1) Phono input mostly irrelevant nowadays
(2) Headdphone jack is nice...but...using outputs and keeping the amps off can do the same thing. Just parallel feed to a headphone amp (got plenty, including dynamic and electrostatic)
(3) One more component video input is no problem. I can take my very old Sony 5 x 1 matrix switcher get five more component inputs. Heck: if I used another matrix I could get S-video as well and it will do the conversion. So: all these points are well taken and I agree.

Now to the "MEAT"
(1) Some extra processing modes: Being a newbie I don't know the relative importance of this. I don't know what's going to shake out, so maybe the extra dollars is really important for this function.
(2) The switching HDMI vs. DVI: I just don't have a clue as to what's important here. I read your view...but I dunno. Maybe gonk will comment.
Maybe Scott will comment

I know that everyone seems to like the HDMI, but to me, it just seems better to keep my audio and video signals seperate. Just my thoughts. It is not really a big deal for me anyway. I WANT the DVI, as the denon 2910 has it and I only have 1 DVI input on my tv so.....For me it is a good thing.

One of the main reasons that I am stepping up to the 990 is that I have a 6 year old Denon 2400 that does not even have digital inputs (coax or fiber...) so....the 990 is a huge step up for me..

I am looking foward to seeing how this HDMI shakes out...

First, I think that many 950 owners will stay with what they have, and I don't blame them for it - the 950 is still a nice unit.

If you don't already have a headphone amp lying around (I've had my 950 for over 3 years now and never got around to picking one up), the inclusion of a headphone jack - especially with Dolby Headphone tossed in - is a nice incentive, but I agree that it's not enough to warrant upgrading your system. The phono input is similar - in both cases, if you are considering an upgrade they serve as "bonuses" that add value to the 990.

Pro Logic IIx is as "hot button" a feature today as Pro Logic II was when the 950 came out - it's a feature that people will demand be on a new product. If you plan to run your system in 5.1, it is completely useless, but 7.1 system users will expect it and there may even be a few folks who upgrade specifically to get it.

What we are hearing from Outlaw (and I've done a little web research that has consistently supported their information, although specifics are rather unsettlingly sparse) is that while HDMI video is pretty well established as a format, HDMI audio is still evolving. The current generation of HDMI is 1.1. I think that 1.2 will support SACD, and if HDMI is anything like USB was, the change from 1.1 to 1.2 will likely not be a purely software adjustment. Even worse, nobody seems to have hammered out the real details on the audio formats and encryption schemes for either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. HD-DVD was supposed to have that determined in March of this year, but what I've found suggests that this will not be done until potentially as late as near the end of summer. HD disc audio is perhaps the most important piece of the HDMI audio puzzle, and with no format to design to, Outlaw has apparently chosen to avoid alienating customers by stranding them with an incompatible HDMI switching section. As nfaguys points out, it is possible to get HDMI-to-DVI and DVI-to-HDMI adapters, since the video signals are pin-to-pin compatible. There are a lot of folks (like myself) with DVI-equipped displays who will need HDMI-to-DVI adapters to use HDMI sources anyway, and after the very active sales of DVI-equipped displays over the last couple years, there is a large installed base of DVI users who will be using DVI inputs for many years to come. I agree that the DVI switching is not the ideal solution, but we are in the position of having to wait at least another six to twelve months before we can expect manufacturers to even begin designing hardware with HDMI inputs that we know will work with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, which means a smaller company like Outlaw (or Rotel, or Anthem, or ...) would be lucky to get an HD HDMI unit in production by the end of 2006. By then, the 950 would be pretty long in the tooth, so it seems like a pretty well thought out decision to give the 990 DVI switching.

The 990 doesn't make the 950 obsolete, and I'm sure most 950 owners will keep what they have for a while longer. Others will see some of the 990's features as sufficiently compelling reasons for them to make an upgrade. It's all about what's right for you, folks.

GONK is right there and now !!! Thanks gonk.
My newbie status is obvious, isn't it?

(1) Regarding "Some extra processing modes. You discussed PLII vs. PLIIx. I surmise (just learning) that PLIIx will do 7.1 and PLII just 5.1. Am I correctly understanding? If so, is the reason for 990 in this regard "OPTIONS"?

(2) Did I miss something in reviewing 990 specs or are there any other audio processing "upgrades"?

(3) HDMI vs. DVI: You referenced me in your discussion of this. My question and confusion, recognizing that I read about cable conversions is this: "if a unit pre/pro has DVI and your TV is HDMI can your cable do for you what HDMI switching would do....and properly, including audio and video.

(4) Since my living room is probably not big enough to adequately accomodate 7.1 would I be missing out on anything other than (a) what's been discussed above and (b) auto-speaker setup.
I'm not worried about room eq now. You pointed out to me the Alesis 830, about which I had forgotten. Also there are other inexpensive Alesis or other eq's.

Thanks.
Your learned comments appreciated

(1) You are correct. PLIIx is an extension of PLII that adds surround back channels. Where the Model 950 used Cirrus's Extra Surround to generate a mono surround back signal from 5.1 sources (including PLII, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DTS 5.1), the Model 990 will use PLIIx to generate discrete left and right surround back channel signals from 5.1 sources (again including PLII, DD 5.1, and DTS 5.1). If you have surround back speakers, this can be pretty cool. If you don't, you'll never use it.

(2) The 990 includes a few new surround modes: Pro Logic IIx, DTS 96/24, Dolby Virtual Speaker, and Dolby Headphone.

(3) HDMI's video format is borrowed from DVI. You can use HDMI-to-DVI and DVI-to-HDMI adapters to connect between HDMI and DVI components. This means that the 990's DVI switching will allow you to use DVI or HDMI sources and connect them to a DVI or HDMI display.

(4) A 5.1 system will not make use of some of the 990's processing modes (PLIIx, Dolby EX, and DTS ES), this is true. However, there's more to a processor than the surround modes. We still haven't gotten to hear one, and that will be perhaps the most telling test.

GONK: You da man !!!!
You have cleared up a good deal of my confusion. Thanks. I'll opt for the 990.

(1) I want the options and for sure dts, as we are doing some archiving, tring to put material of our own acquisition (big bands etc) on dts. I think we'll be successful. (hopefully)

(2) To be able to process at 96KHz/24 bit sounds like a good idea if one can produce one's own material and play it. I can, though I would need another player in the liv room to do it. I can now make 96/24 on my Alesis ML9600. They refer to CDs in that format as "CD24's"
You've shown me that HDMI-DVI is a non issue.

(3) Since you can contrl HDMI from DVI and vice-versa I guess I don't see what the problem is. Is there one?

(1) Best of luck on the DTS software. Any processor today should offer DTS, of course - DTS ES is the 6.1 extension, comparable to Dolby EX.

(2) DTS 96/24 only works for material encoded for DTS 96/24. The 990's upsampling does sound like it allows upsampling to 192/24 of stereo sources.

(3) The problem people are having with DVI in place of HDMI is a result of HDMI's ability to carry audio as well as video, whereas DVI can only carry video. If you acknowledge that HDMI's audio support is still evolving and the final form may not be hardware compatible with existing HDMI hardware, then DVI instead of HDMI isn't really a problem.

gonk, I understand the reason for not implementing HDMI at this time, but my concern is when the standard is settled, will we be able to send the 990 for an upgrade. I know Anthem and others have provisions to do that but I don't even see a place on the rear panel for an additional output.

I am extremely happy with my 950. I don’t plan on upgrading at this time. But then again, I was still using original pro-logic when I upgraded to the 950. There certainly will be early 950 adopters who will become early 950 adopters, and I’d think the budget-minded will be able to pick up a used 950.

The two features that I would like to have on my 950 are Dolby PLIIx and digital video switching. However, we are talking about a significant price difference between a new $1,100 Model 990 and a new $700 Model 950. The 990 is 57% more expensive than the 950

Outlaw discontinued the 1050 long before the 1070 came out. If they discontinued the 950, they would have no receivers or pre/pros to sell before the 990 arrived. Although it’s not state-of-the-art, the 950 is still a very formidable pre/pro. If they can add Dolby PLIIx and call it the 951, I would think Outlaw could sell both products side by side for a long time.

The thing I don't get is why a/v manufacturers don't use slots like computer manufacturers use - wouldn't it make hardware upgradability a no-brainer? DVI no longer the standard? Swap it out for HDMI 1.0. HDMI 1.0 no longer the standard? Swap it out for HDMI 2.0 or whatever.

Is this really that expensive to implement, or is it simply a matter of needing to keep us upgrading every few years?

-SM

The reason I'm with the 900 is I don't own a 950 - otherwise it would be a hard decision!

Rather than a DVI-HDMI switch, I'll get a DVI-HDMI cable. Pretty inexpensive & one less thing to go wrong. My Panasonic PJ (AE-700) has a HDMI input, so the DVI on the 900 will will pass through directly. The other bonus - the HDMI end is so much smaller, it will pass through the conduit much easier than the DVI.

Bob

bobby c: I also don't own either, yet. I'm going with the 990 for reasons discussed in thread above. Your input also helps me. Thanx

I am sitting on the fence. I am on the wait-list for the 990, but most of what is attractive to me about the 990 is user interface improvements (I travel a lot and I get a lot of cell phone calls from the wife asking how to use the system)

Things like renameable inputs, up-conversion to Component (so my wife doesn't need to change display inputs) and auto speaker calibration (for when she messes everything up) are really nice human interface components on the 990. The PCM upconversion and USB are nice touches too, but I think they are of dubious importance.

I don't know that they are worth $400, but since I don't already own a 950, and my purchases are infrequent (I am replacing a Pre-dolby digital rotel bought in 1997) getting something (more)state-of the art that I might grow into may be worth $400 down the road. However, since I don't plan to go past 5.1 in the near future, maybe not.

If I see a used 950 go below $500 I might go that way, but otherwise, I think it may be worth it to pony up the extra money.

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts? Yes.
I, too, don't often update. I bought a receiver with Dolby ProLogic around 1991 or so. Happy with it till I (very late in the game) learned about 5.1 Bought a Vantas unit which supposedly "tracks" the main R&L and with three built-in amps tells the center and surrounds what to do, and you can plus or minus to a degree. Never thought it was exceptional and also I could hear it "pump" or "work". Wife never understood it, nor my other [what I considersimple"] hookup. So for reasons you mentioned and for those in the thread above I'm going with the 990.

For one thing I think its "platforms" will be stable for awhile, including HDMI vs DVI and certainly the upsampling and other audio new features.

My only decision is whether to go with a 5 ch (i.e. 755) or 3 M200's and use my present stereo power amp (Crown DC300A-II). Certainly it has the power to spare for the surrounds.

The issues with amps will be discussed elsewhere.
Good luck to all of us including Outlaw/Scott etc. We just can't wait to get our ears around this new baby.

If you look at the back panel, the 990 clearly has a phono input.

Az,

I think he's aware of that. His point is, that for him at least, having or not having a phono input is basically a non-issue. It's not really a factor in his decision as it is "irrelevant nowadays." To those with a nice collection of vinyl, this would be a big deal. For him, it's not.

I keep seeing people list it as a missing option. I realize it's not a big deal for most people. For 950 owners that have vinyl, they already have a phono preamp anyway, so I doubt anyone really cares.

But it was bugging me that people didn't know it had one.

Not to mention that are probably some 950 owners who never got around to picking up a phono preamp but want to dig their turntable and vinyl back out. Plus there are the folks who are considering the 990 as an upgrade from some older hardware that does offer a phono input and need to have such an input on their new gear.

I don't know if I'll use the phono input, I love vinyl on my 2 channel system - this is my first walk on the dark side of multi-channel ! So its all new to me, will music sound as good in my HT room as in my 2 channel room? For years I argued against it and when I first started building my HT last fall, I thought it would be solely dedicated to HDTV & movies. Maybe the Outlaw will make a believer out of me!

You are all correct about my position on the phono input. It's nice to know it's there (for those who need it). I would probably never use it, so it's indeed irrelevant. Perhaps I should have said "an irrelevant issue for me". Sorry guys.

bobbyc:

as far as the outlaw goes,it should pass the signal beautifully.it will probably depend more on quality source,amplification and speakers.

i use my 1050 as a pre-amp when listening to 2(.1) channel,using outboard d/a conversion(among other things),i know it sounds good,i know most everybody that listens to 2-ch with a 950 likes it,so that should give you some insight,i used to do vinyl,but sold all years ago.

and this was also my first walk with multi-ch.
for my occasional movie or my dozen concert dvds it's awesome,there's no going back

If it's right, it will work well with 2 channel and multi channel. The Oitlaw stuff has a 2 channel bypass so that all it does is pass the signal. From there it's all about your source, speakers and the room. Accurate reproduction of sound doesn't care how many channels there are.

My system does both well, and I've got a dedicated 2 channel system in another room that rarely gets used anymore.

I am very happy that many are not upgrading as of now, maybe that will allow me to purchase one of the first batch. I own a 950 and I like it very much, but I only bought it because I got a great deal on it and a 755 amp. I shall sell my 950 as soon as my 990 is delivered and installed. After using a low price receiver with PLIIx and Auto setup I was hooked on those features. I did some google searching on HDMI and found some interesting information regarding HDMI not passing 5.1 audio. This info was posted in Feb 2005. For the 990 to fully utilize the HDMI, it could not be just a simple switch, it would have to drop the audio and pass video. I do-not have a need to send mulitchannel audio to a tv.

I, for one, am looking forward to phono input (as well as DPLIIx, Dolby headphone, etc.). Of course I haven't mentioned the fact that I'm on the 990 list to the wife yet, so the WAF is going to take a big hit. I figure I can just replace the 950 with the 990 and she won't even notice, but the FedEx guy and credit card bill is another matter. And when she sees the turntable and large vinyl collection come out well, there could be trouble in paradise.
Can't wait to hear that needle touch down on the vinyl though...and jump up 20 minutes later to flip it over!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm and that's not "hum" or "hun" :-)
Maybe I was too quick to discard all those years of vinyl. I'm gettin' the 990 anyway, but I still have that old T-T and maybe I'll actually get it (and those old vinyls) out. I know, most everything is on CD. Still, maybe...........

You don't need to wait for the 990 to listen to records. You can get a simple preamp from Radio Snack for $40. I have a real nice NAD preamp that was $100.

That being said, I rarely listen to records as I much prefer CDs. But I have quite a few records that were never released on CD.

True, I've got an old SAE pre with 3 phono inputs, but when I moved I didn't bother hooking it or my turntables up. Now that the 990 is here with DVI in and out, DPLIIx, Auto Speaker setup, Dolby Headphone, is software upgradeable, AND HAS PHONO INPUT , I just gotta have it.

I'm with Jeff, the 990 certainly looks very good on paper but there is not enough there to even tempt me to upgrade from my Rotel 1068. If however they had HDMI switching instead of DVI, I may have been tempted, at least for an audition.

I'm always confused when people say want HDMI switching instead of DVI. Do they really mean HDMI input for audio? That is what I'm waiting for. DVI can "switch" HDMI with a simple adapter so I don't understand the fuss between DVI and HDMI switching.

I think I am going to go for the 990. Having my SVHS and OSD come through the component connections is a real plus, something that now takes a complicated RC macro to do. I am hoping that other little things will be fixed. How it deals with bass management, OSD display time in 1 second increments, a configurable startup volume, a mute button that stays muted when you adjust the volume, independent volume adjustment between inputs, muting during switching, DCV triggers that can be assigned to a device, maybe an auto leveling control that will keep a certain DB regards less of the source, like going through TV channels. If it's going to the heart of the system you need it to do a lot of different things.

Obie_fl, I think most people are wishing for HDMI for the audio, not realizing that the current HDMI standard for audio is still evolving. As you say, DVI can switch HDMI video.

I had a 950 for a while. Really liked it. In fact, I liked the CES modes so much, it pushed me in the direction of a Lexicon MC-8 with Logic 7. I love the MC-8. It's only fault: no i.Link. I would have considered the 990 if it had an i.Link input. It doesn't. I think that is a mistake.

(One thing in common between Lexicon and Outlaw: truly excellent customer service.)

HDMI might never be able to pass SACD/DSD, and even if it does, it can never be a jitterless connection like i.Link can be. For those of you not into SACD, that's fine. But I am. i.link passes all current digital audio *now*. HDMI doesn't, and might never be able to either.

But the 990 doesn't even have HDMI, it has DVI, which is being phased out in the consumer world in favor of HDMI. Plus, maybe a videophile out there can comment on this, DVI is 8 (or 10) bit video whereas HDMI is 10 (or 12) bit video. Greater bandwidth.

I also think it should have more than two coax digital inputs too.

I wonder about single cable solutions that contain both audio and video. Hardly anyone uses their TV for 5.1 SS, so how do those single interface/connections work? When it splits at some point to run to both the Display and Sound processing do you lose anything, does it have to be converted?

Single HDMI cable: one cable from player to pre/pro. Pre/pro splits off the audio to your amp. But also sends video to display. You get switching for free.

No you don't lose anything at the pre/pro. Plus, you can still use the audio at the display if you choose. For example, late at night viewing when you don't want to fire up your whole system.

Beside, if you want two cables, one for audio, one for video, it'd be i.Link plus DVI. Obviously, one of which the Outlaw does not have. Has coax and Toslink, but then what about DVD-A and SACD? Oh yeah, the 990 *digitizes* the 5.1 analog inputs. There's a great solution for those that don't mind 24/192 DVD-As and 2.45 GHz SACDs downsampled to 24/96...

Kevin,

Your post in the past have been very informative. But,on this matter; Man it's time to GET OVER IT.

Hey, I'm a little slow, but at this point in time it seems that with HDMI I would be investing in an unproven technology that I will probably only get to use half of. At least in my current system. I haven't read any articles that have praised the HDMI connection as being visibly or audible superior to all other connections; I must have missed that one. But, the bandwidth is greater, so it must be better. I am all for that. I am just trying to figure out what I will be missing by using DVI or Component for video and coax or optical for audio. Will I really notice the difference (asking myself)? Should I wait another 2 or 4 years until this all gets settled?

The iLink thing sounds good. Is that the same as the high speed connection used with digital cameras connecting to your PC? You can daisy chain them that sort of thing?

Hey PT: MeanGene ASKED.

MeanGene- Look at the players and displays coming out now. Almost all of them have HDMI. I don't think manufacturers would do that if it was "unproven." HDMI will pass every video format and every audio format (except for SACD/DSD, and that's my personal beef with it) that is available now.

Yes, you can daisy chain i.Link components.

DVI will work, just that you might have to buy adapters if any of your other components have HDMI connections. And there have been issues with blacker than black data being lost when going from certain players with HDMI outputs to displays with DVI inputs.

It appears that Outlaw considers this an issue that needs to be thoroughly addressed, because I got a second e-mail response this morning to the question I asked them on early Thursday. While they were at the show in New York this weekend, they picked a few brains at Silicon Optix about the issue of digital video switching and such. Silicon Optix concurred with Outlaw that the 990's switching would be fully compatible with HDMI components - all you need is an adapter or two.

There was also a comment from that discussion that intrigued me, although in light of the 990's pass-through switching it isn't really an issue either way for the 990. According to Silicon Optix (who should know better than anyone), all consumer-grade digital video formats currently available or in development (including Blu-Ray) are 8-bit. 10-bit digital video is limited to a few very pricey commercial platforms. Clearly, this does not match well with some of the information from sources such as Secrets (including this article ). It sounds to me like some HDMI source devices are manipulating 8-bit data in a manner that isn't behaving well with DVI displays. (In fact, JJ at Secrets referred to the whole as being due to the fact that "There is a bug in the Silicon Image HDMI transmitter".) It makes me wonder if, in light of the significant number of DVI displays that have been manufactured and sold over the last two or three years there may be an effort to improve this behavior. That's probably being a bit overly optimistic, but still... It also leads me to suspect that future HDMI devices (HD receivers and HD disc players like HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, or a unified standard) will simply pass the original 8-bit signal without any manipulation (similar to the way they pass digital audio now), eliminating the potential HDMI/DVI conflict.

Yes, losing that black than black info in some players going from HDMI to DVI is a chip problem. I would imagine that would be fixed in future hardware. With the caveats that, a) how long did it take the industry to completely address the chroma bug? b) As most displays now come with HDMI instead of DVI inputs, I don't know how motivated the hardware people will be to actually fix it anyway.

The next display that I was starting to like is the Samsung HL-R6768W which has no DVI input . Although component is still there, and it has Firewire (iLink). This missing feature may be a stumbling block for me as well.

Sorry, trigger happy.

Why would it be a "stumbling block" when it actually has two HDMI inputs that also support DVI?

From what I could find, it only has 1 HDMI input, but as Cliff says that's still not a problem that I can tell. If you have a DVI source (or want to use the 990's DVI switching), all you need is an adapter to switch from DVI to HDMI. Or are you talking about a missing feature (perhaps IEEE-1394) on the 990?

The key word is "Maybe" - No transcoding from the Outlaw to DVI. Maybe that means I won't be able to see the OSD on screen, not sure. There maybe problems with using an adapter and the resulting display quality. I guess time will tell, there are some unknowns here that may hinder me from replacing a perfectly good 950.

We'll know more once folks start using the 990, of course - including if certain brands of adapters cause problems, although the only problem I would anticipate would be with bad adapters (which would also create problems in a straight connection between DVI and HDMI). I haven't heard of any such "problem child" adapters on the market, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. Plus, the arrival of the 990 certainly does not somehow magically flip a switch that makes 950's obsolete. Waiting a couple months to decide whether or not to upgrade won't cause your 950 to spontaneously combust in the equipment rack in protest, after all...

I think it goes without saying that you won't get OSD on the DVI output - the switching appears to be equivalent to the 950's component switching, with nothing done to the video signal except switching between two inputs.

gonk,

Here is a picture of the connector panel. Notice one of the HDMI inputs is marked (DVI).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=5554765&fullpage=1

Cool - all I could find was the CNET page (didn't turn anything up at Samsung's site), and CNET indicated a single HDMI input. The picture is quite a bit more informative.

gonk,

I think the CNET person got confused with the new 720p model that does have a single HDMI input.

That's really great information, Gonk. You may wish to paste your full post on the "protocols" thread just in case someone is not following this discussion on this one.

The idea - if Silicon Optix is correct - that 8 bit is basically all we're going to get as consumers - even with Blu-Ray (and, I'm assuming HDDVD as well) means there is no reason to fret (as I have been doing) over only having DVI inputs/output on the 990. In my mind, waiting a year or so for a pre/pro with HDMI in/out would have been a logical decision until I found out what you reported from Outlaw.

I suppose it does, though, leave the issue of potential chip problems with some source HDMI outputs...

THe OSD does not come through the DVI output. You will have to use components or composites in one input. Which really doesn't matter to me. Who needs the on screen menu in HD? Heh.