#51620 - 01/20/08 06:17 PM
Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Desperado
Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
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Because ‘you never know’ what kind of expertise might be found in the forum, I thought I’d ask a question about the ‘carbon footprint’ of electric vehicles. While the vehicle itself may not emit carbon-oxygen gases as it travels down the road, how much of a bottom-line ‘carbon footprint’ was made in creating the electricity to power the vehicle compared to a high-efficiency hydrocarbon powered vehicle?
Some electricity is generated without much of a ‘carbon footprint’, but a fair portion is … what’s the ratio? (Related topic - consider nuclear waste in addition to ‘carbon footprint’)
For electricity generation, we start with either water flow (kinetic energy) or heat. If we start with heat, we then convert to kinetic energy before continuing. If my thinking is correct this process follows: kinetic to electric (some loss), electric transmission, distribution, and transformation to what the batteries will receive (some losses), electric to chemical in the batteries charging (some loss), chemical to electric as the batteries are used (some loss), and finally electric to kinetic (some loss) as the vehicle is put in motion. If the vehicle has regenerative braking, we may get some energy back in stop-and-go traffic, but for long-distance driving the recovery may be negligible.
By the time all is said and done, if I move a vehicle down the road for a thousand miles with an on-board gasoline or diesel engine of relatively good efficiency versus moving the same vehicle the same distance with all-electric power (partially generated by processes that produce a ‘carbon footprint’ and have several stages of conversion losses), how much do I gain or lose relative to ‘carbon footprint’?
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#51621 - 01/20/08 06:38 PM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Desperado
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 334
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Wikipedia has a very good article about electric vehicles which addresses this.
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#51623 - 01/21/08 12:47 AM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Gunslinger
Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 91
Loc: Panama City, Florida
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Assuming a fossil fuel power plant (coal, oil, natural gas), it's slightly less efficient to get energy to the drive wheels of the vehicle using electrical power than it is using a modern gasoline/Diesel engine. The electrical generation plant is more efficient than the internal combustion engine but the losses in transmission and the charge/discharge cycle of the batteries more than make up for it.
If you really want efficiency, look at some of the new small displacement turbocharged Diesel engines with common rail injection. They're looking at 60 mpg and more.
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#51624 - 01/21/08 01:39 AM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Tucson, Az.-Orange County, Ca.
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There's a ton of information about this on the link listed below. (In my signature.) But, sadly, there has been some heads rolling at what used to be my favorite all time start up company. They have actually fired one of the Founders so my days of cheerleading has waned. Nonetheless, the particulars, the facts and the figures you seek are still on the site.
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Living Room: Outlaw 975-Atlantic Tech A2000 Amp. 3 Outlaw LCR's (FL-C-FR). 2 Outlaw Surrounds. 2 Outlaw BLS in the rear. Outlaw LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer. TCL 65 inch Roku TV. OPPO BDP-83.
Bedroom: Outlaw 990-Outlaw 7125. Aperion's all the way around. Apple TV. HTPC built from scratch.
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#51625 - 01/21/08 03:35 PM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Desperado
Registered: 03/20/03
Posts: 668
Loc: Maryland
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If the facts are being truthfully represented, in a whole-context sense, then electric vehicles, despite several conversions between chemical, thermal, electrical and kinetic energy, are going to be helpful even in the near future. Hopefully by the time I’m looking to replace my current vehicle there will be several viable vehicle options and associated infrastructure available that will suit my needs well and have enough economy of scale to be available without a financial penalty. I’ll have to check back to read the white paper ‘The 21st Century Electric Car’ when the updated version is available. http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/white_papers.php
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#51626 - 01/21/08 04:50 PM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Tucson, Az.-Orange County, Ca.
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Living Room: Outlaw 975-Atlantic Tech A2000 Amp. 3 Outlaw LCR's (FL-C-FR). 2 Outlaw Surrounds. 2 Outlaw BLS in the rear. Outlaw LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer. TCL 65 inch Roku TV. OPPO BDP-83.
Bedroom: Outlaw 990-Outlaw 7125. Aperion's all the way around. Apple TV. HTPC built from scratch.
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#51628 - 01/22/08 06:55 PM
Re: Vehicles - Carbon Footprint & Other Issues
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Gunslinger
Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Tucson, Az.-Orange County, Ca.
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Gonk: I am.
_________________________
Living Room: Outlaw 975-Atlantic Tech A2000 Amp. 3 Outlaw LCR's (FL-C-FR). 2 Outlaw Surrounds. 2 Outlaw BLS in the rear. Outlaw LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer. TCL 65 inch Roku TV. OPPO BDP-83.
Bedroom: Outlaw 990-Outlaw 7125. Aperion's all the way around. Apple TV. HTPC built from scratch.
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