Am I the only one sick of the ipod ? This little device is ruining the future of “High End” audio. I went into Circuit City and Best Buy the other day mainly to browse the DVD-A and SACD sections they have only to find they don’t have them anymore!!! Now I have no place to buy these Hi Rez formats accept on line. Of course as I looked around the rest of the store I couldn’t help but notice more room has been made for ipod junk!!! Don’t get me wrong, I think the ipod is a great little device for music on the go but I can’t believe how easily people will give up quality for convenience. There is even a thread going right now over at AVS with some guy asking if there are any A/V Receivers that are designed to work with his ipod. IMHO MP3s sounds as thin as the ipods that play them and to hook them to any piece of equiptment that you can’t shove in your ears is an insult to all that we hold dear. I hope I haven’t insulted any ipod owners but sometimes I just have to rant.

Lasher

Mass storage is nice, but I like my quality too.

Sorry for your loss, lasher. My pod serves a purpose that hi res audio can't fulfill, so I'll have to disagree - to a point. You can rip files in iTunes at a quality level that doesn't compromise from CD quality, which for me is a boon when I'm at work or traveling (and DVD-audio is not an option).

On the flip side, there are those who think the pod is the pinnacle of audio quality and technology, but hey, there's still people who'll buy speakers out of the back of a truck, too. But that's also the fault of those in control of the industry: the ipod is all about convenience, whereas hi res audio is anything but convenient ("So, I've also got to buy 12 more cables and a bass management unit? How much for that little iPod over there?").

Those of us who know the value will put up with the extra burden, but those who dont? They just go for the one that doesn't make their eyes cross explaining it.

.

Wayne

There is much truth in what you've said. I don't own an iPod although I use my laptop as one (on airplanes with a Boze II headset). As I look around I see iPoders smiling and enjoying the music. I find myself enjoying BOZE headsets (my car stereo is a Boze too and it's awful). You are really on target. There are people who just enjoy having some pleasant music and then there are those in quest of an unattainable goal--perfect reproduction. I'm not ready to buy an iPod but I will probably stay with my 990 rather than buy an Anthem Statement D1 because I have begun to focus on good sound rather than perfect sound. So let's not knock some else's enjoyment. Perhaps audiophiles should search their souls for the missing joy....

i think,if there would have been an iPod available when there was only a walkman 20+ years ago,we probably would have been on them like flies on .... .i've never heard one,never want to.have no use for one.but gotta admit,they are pretty cool.

You know I have to admit it’s not really the ipod that’s ticking me off. That is just the tip of a much larger iceberg. It’s this whole smaller is better attitude that everyone has lately. I over heard one guy bragging to another the other day (talking about their cell phones) He said proudly “mines smaller than yours”……….lol. I almost made a comment that would have gotten me into trouble Fortunately age has improved my judgment as well as my musical taste. Look at what this attitude has done to speakers. If you want full range tower speakers these days you better be very well off $$$$$ wise. This trend is what has made Bose one of the biggest selling speaker companies ever. Yet no one seems to care that they sound like crap!!! Small is cute so lets by those!!! The latest HDTVs are getting so thin that speaker manufacturers are shrinking and thinning their lineups more each year to better match them. Before long all you will have is a Midrange, a Tweeter, and a Subwoofer. Maby I’m just getting older but I never thought I’d see the day that I was dreading the newest release in the A/V industry. Just my .02

Lasher

oh,i dig what u r sayin' Lasher.i was always,like,bigger is better(d-9's),louder is better,but age has also played a role here.seems like everything i deal with NOW is quality not quanity.but i agree with Audiobear on good(i prefer great ) sound instead of perfect sound!

and when will bose have 5.1 surround sound from a single point source driver?

As soon as they can figure out how to convince the public it's worth $1800.

On the other hand the iPod buyers of today maybe the full 7.1 SS buyers of tomorrow. Ya gotta start somewhere.

By the way, do you know where I can get a solid silver interconnect for my iPod? (Just Kidding)

i'll sell ya one,we'll try something new.you only pay what you think it's worth!

Now that's a new concept. Only pay what you think it's worth..............I'd have no system or no money........lol. Depending on the day you ask

Lasher

Yeah, like one in a million. :p


Something else that's been annoying me with these things (and other mp3 players) is trying to ride on the park trails with these people plugged into their devices. It irks me when people want to get outdoors yet they have to bring along this distraction from it to entertain themselves. :rolleyes: The other thing is that these idiots can't hear a darn thing and they don't know it. A number of people can hear me coming from 50 yards away yet these guys will be running or walking dead center down the trail completely oblivious to anyone asking them to move out of the way. The earbuds block out far more sound than they realize, especially when they're concentrating on something.

.

wayne,at 6:30 am THAT was more than enough.

i keep rereading to take it all in!oh well,got a 5(FIVE) day weekend to think about the 'ole ipod.

did i mention a five day weekend?

Then again, maybe people just like their music...

All too true, JT, but then again this phenomenon goes all the way back to the Walkman. Bikers in the 80's all but became an endangered species using those things on the road.

iPods don't kill people, people kill people with iPods.

feel free to send me your ipods, i find the ability to have a lot of music organized at my fingertips and portable to be a good idea. i like music, who cares how i get it. yes i prefer it to sound "good", but i dont see anything wrong with hearing it at all. most of us listen to music in our vehicles and they are pretty bad acoustically, i dont see much difference between that distortion and the sound coming out of some earbuds. of course i would prefer the sound to be beamed into my head at the highest quality possible from outerspace, but alas it is still a dream.

Believe me, it's overrated, curegeorg. I've been getting Sinatra's "Mack the Knife" for 3 days straight now, and i can't turn it off...

With no offense to Wayne, his explanation is nothing more than pseudo-socio-political psycho-babble with a smattering of sci-fi-drenched malaise. In reality, we are all fans of either music, home theater or both.

If you really want to get to the root of it, music is nothing more than an auditory escape. A combination of tones at various pitches and timbres than affect each of us differently and emotionally. Movies on the other hand are a semi-tangible release from our lives to escape into a world, be it realistic (dramas) or unrealistic (sci-fi), so we can escape the drudgery we call work/the world.

The stereo equipment we use and so lovingly cherish is simply a potent catalyst to perpetuate this need. Is this behavior necessarily evil? No. History has shown that various cultures engage in a plethora (I've always wanted to use that word) of activities as an opportunity to "see" outside themselves. To gain a perspective other than their own.

In short, why on earth are we arguing if the iPod is the keystone that marks the downfall of civilization? I think Disco claimed that title long ago. Is it perfect for pristine musical reproduction? No. Is it the reason our society is obsessed with Britany's pregnancy? No... er... well maybe, yeah. But it is not the eventual downfall of man. Its an MP3 player for crying out loud. Move on and enjoy your theater. We've earned it.

By the way, that is an impressive set-up, Wayne!

Houghers

.

I don't think the sarcasm was lost on anyone. That's whay I jumped into the fray with my own tongue-in-cheek response (thus the disco reference).

My apologies if you were insulted Wayne. That was never my intention.

Houghers

Portability is great. What gets to us is that it's another toy that's supposed to be something like a status symbol. That and plain idiocy, which, of course, is everywhere.

.

what would we have, if we didnt have toys? i like toys, if that is indeed what you want to call them. enjoyment takes on many forms, some of us need this and some of us need that, to enjoy our time here. who is to say what is right, wrong, or stupid?

some people may not like the way wayne italicizes, etc. and some may not like the way i dont capitalize or ', but that is the great thing about freedom. we have the choice to do what we want, and not have to worry about pleasing something greater. many of us choose to be acceptable, but you dont have to. in this sense we are all outlaws, are we not?

.

what's everybody's take on the new release today?

the video IPOD.does that come with a lifetime appointment with the eyedoctor?

I am actually in the video over mobile phone network industry so I'm supposed to tell you that video on a 2" screen is the cat's meow. Well....it isn't. It's terrible. I can't believe people buy these things, but they do, especially in Asia. I was in a restroom at a very expensive restaurant in Hong Kong about 4 months ago. While I was doing my thing at the urinal, the guy next to me was watching streaming porn on his 3G cellphone. I nearly wizzed on my shoes I was laughing so hard. Go figure.

I have a ROKR and a beta version of the Apple video ipod (which I've got to send back soon) and the Motorola A1000. Except for when I need them for a demo at a meeting, they all stay in my desk. But hey, I'm approaching 40 and maybe I just don't see as well as ya'll whippersnappers. 8-)

Cheers,

Heh. I do anti-virus and security for embedded systems, including mobile terminals. Greetings.

Gr33tz! 8-)

Rip all your music in Apple Lossless format, which will put about 180 CDs onto a 60gig Ipod, pair it with a good battery powered headphone amp (Grado RA-1 for example) and some nice headphones and it will sound awesome.

The iPod didn't kill SACD and DVD-Audio, the RIAA or whomever thought up that god awful format with tons of restrictions did.

It's a shame, but it's the truth. I've had an iPod since 2002 when the first 20GB model came out. I love high quality audio but you're not going to get that sitting in a MD-80 or 757 across the United States without dropping some serious money and then having to worry about it getting dropped, damaged, swiped, or needing a backpack twice the size of your laptop just to carry all the components to make it reproduce said audio quality.

And contrary to the ragging here the iPod doesn't make you rip music and compress the heck out of it. If you're one of those types who thinks they can tell a difference between a semi-compressed file and a raw file then don't buy it.

But for the rest of us that have apparently damaged beyond all hope ears and like the fact that we could listen to our flavor of music instead of the drone of jet engines for a few hours, or listen to music instead of the drone of a subway, or hook it into our car and listen to podcasts or music without having to listen to some 'morning show' or something else equally idiotic it doesn't mean that you can point and call us stupid.

And I can't wait for my new 990/7125 combo to show up because on my Sony 9000ES playing iTunes through my Airport Express into that on my Klipsch Reference speakers it sounded great, and in a 'test on the wife' of playing both the CD and the iTunes sources she couldn't tell the difference. Not having to have two 400 disc CD changers to listen to my music library replaced by something as big as a deck of cards has a lot going for it. Hard drives will only get bigger over time and eventually you'll be able to rip your entire library onto it with and hopefully by then you'll quit-yer-bitchin

As a owner of a SACD (Sony 999ES), a 40 Gig Ipod, and a Roku photo bridge w/ digital output to my Outlaw 990, I can say that each have their purpose.

The Ipod (or MP3 device) is a tremendous development! It does not control where there you burn at 56K or 320K. That is your choice, but results in a huge audible difference. It simply plays back “the music” the way you choose to listen. Overtime, capacities will increase, compression will reduce, and quality will improve. Today . . . Great for portability, to hook to car system, and bedroom use.

The Roku, feed by a network attached storage device (in my basement), allows me to stream 320K MP3 to be digitally decoded by the 990. It is really hard tell the difference from the original CD. Very convenient to browse/access. Perfect for everyday listening when you do not commit the brain power to detect the differences. Eventually hard drives will increase in capacity and I will be able to simply copy my entire CD collection uncompressed to the HD. In the meantime my 160 GB hard drive will cover me for a long while (5 or so years).

The SACD is the best quality! However, few have systems that can resolve the details to appreciate the improvements. Consequently this format is nothing more than a niche market to the fanatics like us. I do have an excellent system, but only when my kids are a sleep (10PM) is the background noise and distractions low enough to enjoy the improvements. In addition, the format adds a large sacrifice in flexibility. I can only use on my home system SACD. Compressing requires making an analog copy to transfer. Ultimately this "wonderful" technology has already failed due to the restrictions imposed at a marginal improvement in quality to well decoded CD.

The point is music is for enjoyment. To many people 56K compressed MP3 is as good as it gets. For most 120K to 192K MP3 sounds identical to CD. To some SACD is not good enough. The human mind is more that capable to fill in the gaps if you do not look for them!

Bottom line is that the Ipod serves the needs of the vast majority of the masses and is a reflection of the masses tastes and listening preferences! I suspect that those who own an Ipod only enjoy "the music" much much more than those of us who "critically" listen!!!

I have ripped around 200 CDs uncompressed in .wav format and put them on an external 160GB drive. I still have about 60GB of space left. I figure disk space is so cheap (less than $50 per 100GB) that I may as well go uncompressed. Is there some other reason to compress the files other than speed of file transfer and lack of space?

I got an iPod Nano as an early christmas present. It's a very slick little unit, and with earbuds it sounds quite nice, but personally I still prefer the origial CD (or an uncompressed or lossless version of it) to MP3 when I have the choice. The iPod is nice for sitting at my desk at work or for road trips (such as the meeting I have this afternoon that's 100 miles from here), but my CD library in the den isn't going anywhere for the time being.

Avlis,

You raise a good question. The simple truth is that I was a MP3 hating individual one year ago. My brother inlaw was sent to Iraq last year and I started compressing portions of my music library which he used + shared with others.

As I experimented I found the 192K to not be offensive, and 320K to sound reasonably good (close to CD). I eventually picked up a Ipod for its convience and the sound was OK.

Due to a love in photography, I searched out the Roku which was bought because it sends a HD signal to my 65inch wide screen to view pictures. As a bonous it sends MP3, and as you just stated uncompressed (original source) wave files.

My currrent limitation is space. I have used up 90GB on the 160GB hard drive. 70GB music (compressed at 320K) and I still have about 20% left archive. The balance of the 20GB's stores photographs.

I have just today tried streaming a uncomressed wave file. . . sounds just like the CD! This is the way of the future!! I'll need a bigger hard drive before I begin the exercise . . . . thanks for the suggestion.

Adrian,

Some things to consider:

My first 160GB drive failed 2 weeks after ripping all my CDs to it. Luckily, I had it partitioned into three slices. I was able to move one of the partitions to a new drive and a friend was able to recover 90% of the bad one using some utility. I suggest partitioning that new drive into smaller chunks incase one of the partitions develops a problem.

The drive failure forced me to buy a 2nd hard drive that I could use as a backup while the bad drive was sent back. I think it cost $40 after rebates (120GB). Even though the original CDs are technically a backup in themselves, I don't like the idea of spending two weekends re-ripping them when the hard drive crashes.

My setup is a USB external drive -> laptop w/MusicMatch -> Xitel HiFi Link -> optical cable -> Outlaw 950. I've played song tracks simultaneously from my laptop and the original CD using the 950 to switch back and forth. If there is any difference in SQ, it is too small for me to notice during casual listening.

Then there's this one:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1338702&CatId=207

Hey Ziggy,

I was eyeing that one last night. I suspect my wife would kill me if it crashed . . . $869!


Avils,

Thanks for the call out. I am already backing up 100% on all tunes. I use the PC hard drive that I originally burned the music on, plus the NAS drive on the house network. For photogrphs I have added a 3rd copy as I am paranoid (stopped using film 2 years ago). To go to uncompressed music, I'll need to add a 300GB+ drive to the existing PC (relatively cheap).

As for streaming, I prefer to accress from a network drive as it is low power consumption and needs to be on all of the time. It probably is cheaper to designte a PC to be a 100% server.
I can also add a USB hard drive to the NAS drive, but trails so far are extreamely slow in file transfer??.

BTW, the Roku sends a PCM signal to the 990 so theoretically nothing gets lost in the streaming . . . Thanks for the insight!

Adrian... that 1TB unit actually is comprised of 4 separate 250GB drives that can easily be removed if they crash, if that makes a difference.

I'll consider that when the price gets under $600. As it is I already have a 160GB HD filled with live shows and another 160GB HD to install in my comp, and I haven't begun to rip my CDs.

I did not realize, but still seams high given that I can buy an internal 250GB hard drive for a little over a $100 at Tiger Direct . . . I think your $600 price point is about right.

Thanks.

I love my IPOD!!It's not the most audiophile- like piece of equipment but it's great and it sounds just fine for what it does.

Here's a new sale:

300GB Maxtor HD for $79.99 after instant and mail-in rebates.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=316141

Hey Ziggy,

I had already owned a 160GB Simpleshare NAS drive. I did a little reading and it clamed you could further expand capacity via USB external HB and web configuration.

The past weekend, I got a 300GB + External UBS drive for a total of about $170. Works great from streaming the uncomressed WAV file. Really cool!

There is an improvement to the sound. Definitely more three dimensional and overall improved details (highs, mids, lows).

Thanks to all for the "food for thought"!

Love my 60gp Video Ipod for the convenience it gives me. For my work, I travel a lot. Before I go on a trip I will rip several DVDs onto the Ipod. With over 255 CDs, entire seasons of my TV Shows, 8-10 full length movies at my finger tips, and IPod casts of my favorite news casts; I have no trouble entertaining myself while I fly in a plane or wait in a short/long layover. All this entertainment in the size of deck of cards. No DVD player to carry around with 8-10 DVDs. No having to carry 255+ CDs to listen to whatever music I am in the mood for at the time. No having to worry about listening to commercial and brain-dead DJ's to find out the news. And no extra luggage, carry on bags, or finding lap room for a bulky laptop or DVD player just to entertain myself.

Yes it would be ideal to be able to watch my plasma TV whenever I wanted to see a DVD, to engage my Outlaw 770 amp to crank up my CDs whenever I wanted to hear to my music, or to rock down the plane with my 7.1 HT sound system with wall-rocking SVS subwoofers while watching War of the Worlds. However it is an impossibility in the practical sense, and I am sure the other passengers on the planes thank me in their own way for not carrying my HT system with me but instead come only with a "deck of cards".

Now if I could only find a way to dodge those dang bike riders that interrupt my AC/DC jamming when I am trying to "get back to nature"! *smile*