Hi people’s. This is more in the nature of a poll. Had a ‘Black Hawk Down’ DVD played prob. 3 times on our old DVD/TV setup. Put this disc into the new Prog. DVD player last night (which I think is going back but that's another story) and got “Disc will not play” message. At first I thought there was some issue new to me with the prog. player somehow being incompatible with this disc. So I switched the old DVD player back on line, same message. Then dusted the disc and reinserted into the Prog. Player got a different message “Disc Dirty”.

In approx. 3 years of heavy DVD use, I have never had a disc ‘go bad’, and this includes heavy ‘operator abuse’ perpetrated on the discs by the kids around here.

This particular DVD looks perfect to the eye. I’m curious what percent of disc loss any of you have experienced in your past?

Well, at last count I haven't had any discs go bad on me, so I guess that puts me solidly at 0% loss. I had a couple CD's start skipping because they were visibly scratched, but that was all on an old Pioneer 6-disc changer a little over ten years ago. It's particularly odd that it just "konked out" almost as soon as they came out of the keepcase. If it was just one player, I'd suspect the same thing you did initially -- player incompatibility. I had a disc or two that would sometimes have problems with my old A310, but those discs worked fine in the Toshiba SD1600 in the bedroom and in the new RA60, and none of them went so far as to flat out not play.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I have had a few discs in the past give a couple of my different DVD players trouble similar to what you are experiencing, including the illusive "Dirty Disc" message, even when the disc appears to be clean. If you have just recently purchased Black Hawk Down, I absolutely recommend that you take it back immediately for a replacement and attempt to play the new disc on both of your DVD players. The substrate that the DVD information resides on sometimes can be microscopically torn or otherwise corrupted during production. If this problem continues to occur, even after replacing the disc, you may want to check with the customer service of your DVD player and see if this is a known problem that exists in that product line. From what you have said, this sounds like it is the disc causing the problem though. The Matrix DVD caused some early DVD players to freeze up, randomly skip chapters and on some, would just plain not work at all, so it is not an uncommon occurrence.


I forgot which DVD player you said that you owned, was it the Sony DVP-9000ES?
I personally have owned a Sony DVP-S3000, a Panasonic A-120, Sony DVP-NS700P(my current reference model/Progressive Scan), a Pioneer DV-343, and a Sony DAV-S300 Dream Theater mini DVD system (my wife?s, in our bedroom . The player that gave me the most trouble was my Pansonic player (same make that GONK had problems with), but I think that was because it was a second generation unit, as well as one of their lowest end models.

I hope that a new copy of that DVD will solve your problem.

P.S. I see that you are looking for a new progressive scan DVD player. If I might inquire, what is you current budget for a replacement for you current Prog. Scan model? Have you already decided which player to get?

Once Again, good luck Lena!

-Jeremy

I get overwhelmed and say I won't research then get sucked into it. I'm starting to make spur of the moment purchases which has sometimes had a happy outcome for me other times were regrettable.

Was going to post this under a Prog. Player Recommendations topic but..

Had a Pioneer DV-C302D 3 disc changer, and it has been a trooper. Had a few miniscule 'skippy' moments but its pretty much handled everything thrown at it. Double duty as CD/DVD player.

Passing by a Tweeters I entered (whoops) wanting an accessory. All the sudden I had an irresistible impulse to see what a Progressive player would look like on our new Sony LCD. (Ever had that urge?) I asked the salesman to recommend since I had not pulled up anything yet on Prog. players. My criteria were based on the fact that:
I'm happy with the Outlaw sound and did not care to pay for High-end Audio capabilities in it. Have spent some $lately and figured I might make this an intern purchase and told the guy point to the best video stats. not worrying about the audio side of it.
Came home with the Sony 12 bit 108 MHz DVP-NS715P.

Gladiator immediately showed remarkable improvement: background in scenes I previously thought were smoky or 'depth of field' out of focus in the opening battle became detailed. Very Nice improvements. Then inserted an old favorite Jeremiah Johnson, luckily this is a dialogue slim movie because the lips keep moving after the audio has played (no sync).
After a very quick glance in the manual, I cannot see that I have adjustments for this problem. Then with a few more discs, Pitch Black, etc, have had some major 'skip' incidences, and a few 'hangs' for seconds at a time. Next day I was quizzing the salesman where I returned a cable and he said players do sometimes have issues with sync which are not user resolvable.

Obviously there was more to factor in my Progressive player purchase than I had realized.

I'm thinking (sensitive to skip alone) this player will prob. be returned.
After a quick scan of HTF, became interested in an upcoming Panasonic DVD-RP82?
What caught my attention quickly is that it was suggested it will have the same 'scale' abilities as the RP91? Users’ stating this is of more importance for a 16.9 set which 'locks' into Full on HD. (my current Sony)
I see that again......(bleeped for good taste) there is so much to learn. Any thoughts to share?


(I worried about finding the receipt, which I usually toss after a DVD has been played, and I think I Pd cash, but I'm going to 'try' at BB's. They can see it has not been abused.)

Well I know what impulse buying can do to a budget, (not to mention buying my marriage counselor's new BMW. and having been an avid DVD devote and early adopter, I feel justly constitutes my 250 DVD's, but I digress. Unfortunately this industry is, as you have come to find out, extremely diversified even in individual catagories, with DVD players just as different as apples-to-oranges! The DVD player that you purchased I believe is this years model of my current player (DVP-NS700P) and sometimes, without any real explaination moving from one generation of player to another, anomolies arise. This may or may not be the case with you particular player, but overall it sounds as though you aren't terribly satisfied.

I have heard a lot of good press about the performance of the Panasonic RP-91, and would assume that the RP-82, if using the same circuitry, would probably be a good buy. The Pioneer Elite DV-47A DVD player is a bit more expensive, but with it's, IMHO incredible video performance and rare inclusion of having BOTH SACD and DVD-Audio playback capability (both 2.0 and 5.1 channel capable) in one unit, it would pretty much justify it's price. The closest comparison of a quality DVD-A/SACD/DVD player that I could find was also a pioneer, but runs for about $5000.00!! I personally would probably buy the Pioneer DV-47A because of these facts alone, taking into account that I am both an audiophile and videophile, but it does cost around $1200. That's just a bit out of MY price range right now. Most of the reviews for the RP-91 that I have read have been favorable, with some notations regarding the video performance slightly lower than other lower priced Panasonic Progressive Scan models, but the main draw is it's ability to scale non-animorphic DVD's to fit your 16:9 display. If that feature is disabled in your sets progressive input, as it is in my Sony LCD 16:9 display, I can see your interest in the Panasonic player.

The reason I would recommend the Pioneer over the Panasonic player, especially in you case Lena, is to allow you and your husband not only the ability of getting the very best video image you can on your brand new Grand Wega, but also to fully take advantage of the Outlaw 950's audio capabilities (DVD-A/SACD). This is again just my humble opinion. The rest is up to you

Hope you and your Husband have a great 4th!!

-Jeremy

LQQKIE...LQQKIE, I'm a GUNSLINGER now!!!!

P.S. I found an online store with that Pioneer player selling it for $849 +26 S&H. Gotta' Scoot!!

Good point, it might not be?!? Although would having ability to scale through the DVD player increase the (range) of scale options, if combined or just duplicate the Sony’s choices?

PS: Congrats Gun Slinger!. I recommend the purchase of a Peacemaker Colt, comes in handy some days! (just kidding this is a great place to be..they put up with me!
I know the Sony locks into full on a component Sat feed, (Vs S-Video Sat where I can still scale) but it crossed my mind I may have tweaked the pic. on some DVD's. (So many new buttons to play with I get lost) Something to look into tonight.

Would be interested in seeing the link to the Pioneer, might be on another research binge here before I decide on the whether to return the player. It does do a great pic. and mayhap its just more sensitive to old surface marred discs? (Or this could be an inherent byproduct of progressive technology and poor layer change ablities?) But I'd rather have a unit that can handle that situation better.
(The Pioneer seemed to play any/thing any/condition)
Happy 4th to You!!! If I stop ignoring my business, to play around in cyberspace every day, we are going up to the Sis' lake house, where it is perfectly legal to shoot off quantities of FW’s. (The boys favorite time of year!)


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited July 01, 2002).]

I have a Kenwood DV-5900M and over 200 DVDs. This player is a progressive scan player and I have never had a DVD skip, nor have I had any problems out of it. If I were you I would at the very least return your current unit and ask for a replacement and see if that unit is just bad. By all means, don't keep it if it doesn't make you happy

As for returning DVD's... Suncoast Video will take them back without a receipt. I've done it several times. They'll just issue you a store credit but let's face it, it's not hard to spend, is it?

Judging from this thread, I apparently have a TON of researching to do before buying my next DVD player!

I'm sorry for the delay, Lena! I was also at work while I was typing my reply yesterday and would have given you the address to that Pioneer DVD player then. DOH!!! Here it is :

http://www.dvdcity.com/dvdplayer/dv47a.html

Well happy hunting there liddle-lady, Waha!

Jeremy

That's a pretty decent price for the DV47A. I've seen some reviews of the DV47A that complained about the SACD performance. Have you had any first-hand experience with it? Is it folks being overly-critical, or is the DV47A paying a price for being one of the first to cram everything into one player?

(Happily enjoying interlaced DVD and DVD-Audio while I wait for a good, affordable universal player...)

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

You know honestly Gonk, I don't own this unit. I desperatly want to!! And as far as the SACD functionality of the DV-47A, I haven't been able to really spend enough time demoing it at my local retailer. I have seen the video performance and was bowled over with it's incredible picture definition and rock solid color delineation. My progressive Sony player is no slouch, but it does seem to have some over-pixelation issues, and has a problem with colorbanding reds to a fairly severe degree. That, and the fact that usually LCD displays have the tendency to show pixel structure to a higher degree than some other types of displays.

I was first drawn to the DV-47A by an aricle in Home Theater Magazine, in the May 2002 issue, where they gave it a good workout audibly and visually, and an excellent review. Unfortunately this review is not available on their site online, but I will try to replicate it for you back on this thread in the next couple of days, if you would like.

On the subject of disk compatibility, my sister has a set of Buffy DVDs that play perfectly on her Panasonic RP-56. On my PS2, the first two disks play fine but the third one begins to skip badly near the middle (layer change?) and then cuts out altogether. Atempts to skip to a chapter past the cut-out point give a "can't read disk" message. The disk has a similar behavior on my mom's iMac.

Go figure.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Mystery solved or resolved as the case may be:
The guys at Tweeter took the Blackhawk disc in the back (while I was returning the NS715P) and decided it might be warped, (never had that happen, and you can spin it , flip it, and cross section eyeball it and it does not look so.
Took it to Blockbusters told them what Tweeters said and the background I gave you and they replaced it. I was impressed, since I had trashed the original cash receipt. It did help that I took in a cash receipt for 5 DVD’s I had purchased with them the week before. (Just to show I was a loyal customer).

SZ & Jeremy, thanks for the suggestions, I am now back in the market for a new Prog. Player.
I would recommend the video capabilities of the Sony player, but either I got a lemon, or they have some severe quirks to tend to on that latest model. I hit the door of Tweeters just before they closed and asked for the Pioneer you mentioned Jeremy, they only had one display left and the salesman could not locate it, the Panny 82 end #model, does not show in his computer with a ship date yet.

Time to do some more learning / pondering. Thank you for your help, any other thoughts please let me know. I’m all ears!

Lena,
Thanks for your comments on my post about video monitors. One of the things I am also looking at is a new DVD player -- and I have been drawn to the Pioneer DVD 47-A because of it's ability to play both multichannel SACD and DVD-A. I also saw the Home Theater review of the unit -- and the liked it very much (both audio and video). I've had a chance to see it at my local high-end dealer, and the video was excellent. Haven't had a chance to demo the SACD and DVD-A capabilities yet -- but I will.

You should definitely check this out! Typical retail price on the unit is around $1000, so the lower price quoted above is pretty good.

Enjoy the lake and the Rangers!

Someone had just relocated the DVD-47A to a different display, the salesman was hunting it - was more than willing to help, - but I took mercy on him (these guys where trying to get out of Dodge to start their 4th) Told him I'd do some research and call/come back. I threw out Jeremy's internet price and the Tweeter salesman said he would match it.
He did suggest possibly waiting to check out some new models coming out across all brands and added that he knew the unit had been well regarded but personally did not like the construction quality.
If you get to demo the sound, Post and let us know, if you've time!

The Ranger Game was great (11-8) Skydivers/fireworks it was fun. For some reason I got mixed on my teams, and thought I might get to see Randy Johnson pitch. Too Bad, - wanted to see how TALL he looked in person. RJ dwarfed Nolan Ryan on camera. I’ve seen Ryan up close at Baseball camp etc. and he’s a man who dwarfed most others around him! Pudge looks shorter in person from 1st row seats and we maintained eye contact frequently, which is a strange sensation. Since the camera can pan you, - don't want mustard dripping down your chin.

Hey Lena, if you want to trace the roots of your current TV (like you've got nothing better to do , you can follow this link, http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/bigequipment1.shtml
and read all about my Sony KL-W9000 monitor. Just some interesting reading.

That was a very good read. Its funny in my inept way of trying to describe why I like this set, - all the positives he lists are exactly why I went ahead with the purchase.

1: ambient lighting and room size are issues that you're grappling with.
2: As with all LCD displays, rich, deep black rendering is impossible, but .. almost becomes a non-issue… distinct advantages of no convergence hassles and no permanent burn-in when displaying static images.
3: Picture is bright, even in fully lit rooms, including daylight. Colors are rich and vibrant with no discernable bleeding or dot crawl.
4: It's a beautiful chassis
5: High-quality programming will appear great. Everything else will look... eh!

Noticed that they dropped the RGB for Component from your model to mine. I would have appreciated the RGB, and I’m sure you - the Component! I wonder if they did not 'revamp' the data capiblity limitations (when used as a computer monitor) listed in the article, therefore changing the inputs to strengthen the displays use for video only.
I don't see any sign of green fog/hot spotting up close (and we are close!) or shimmer, maybe they addressed those issues on the 60"
I’ll do some digging in the rest of the links included, Thank you for posting it.

I feel sure my unit will drop considerarably in price again soon, and be a very good deal PP to veiwing experience.

Did just notice Sony is one Sponsor for that site. So those poss. shoppping for that set take it with salt. However I concur with the article on detailing the reasons for my purchasing

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited July 05, 2002).]

Well I'm glad you liked that article Lena! I purchased my Sony monitor because of that article. That and the fact that at that time (3 years ago) those Sony monitors had just recently been discontinued and the last available units were selling for a song! So I just dove right on in, and really haven't had any complaints since.

I have however dealved into the semi-taboo, warranty-voiding realm of Service Mode Adjustments with my set, which is also why my picture quality has doubled since it's initial purchase! Though this was an extremely difficult and time consuming task that I would never recommend to anyone who is not completely comfortable with navigating cryptic adjustment menus, especially how I did it, without a service manual!

I'll try and get that Home Theater Magazine article on the Pioneer 47A up as soon as I can.

Ya'll take care and have a great weekend.

-Jeremy

I’ve come such a long way (since Christmas) but have barely placed a foot on the path of the A/V handbook. I think I better leave off playing in Service Mode for a year to see how far I might get!! I can see me muttering those famous last words 'whoops' (or something worse). But that’s another plus for this unit, more people seem to post satisfaction with the pic out of the box over other RP which often need a paid house call.

I am beginning to get an inkling of what the forums grump about when in Brick & Mortars. (and this from someone who still mixes up the difference between connections)
Starting to get a ‘reputation’ (evil grin ) when in stores. At Tweeter’s one guy called the other guys other to see the ‘girl’ who had asked detailed questions on the phone about the Sony LCD. I was talking to him about the DVD players and he said “you wouldn’t be so & so who called another sales rep the other day would you?” I had 4 of em standing in a circle staring in surprise as if I was a toothbrush who got up and went out and changed the oil in their car or something.
I’ve already ‘argued nicely’ in the past with sales reps in other stores, who come up to see if I wanted help when I was browsing rows, on what the RCA 38 WS and the HK8000 were capable of. (Gonk gave me my first lesson in PrePro/Receiver amplification.)
In other words you guys have created a monster! But it’s an awful lot of fun.
Look forward to the 47 review.

Hi Jeremy if your grazing,
I am holding on the DVD player purchase, 2 stops did not have your recommendation in stock, and another I’m interested in. For a less expensive choice also am waiting to see what the Panny 82 (out any sec) really does. Ran into this little gadget
http://www.crtcinema.com/pd1000.html
which looks like boutique dressing hype with nada performance/tech stats given on the unit itself but made me think I should perhaps research stand alone scalers for the ultimate in aspect ratio control, don’t know squat about those.
PS. Like you have the time, I just ran into this and thought if you had been happy with your 50” Sony, it looks like Sony is staying invested in LCD with 3 new models coming up. I wonder if they will stretch to installing the newest Sony projector 12? Model # in these releases, it should have better black level and brightness, I understand if they did. (Scroll down past chapt. headings little more than ½ pg. to Sony released LCD…)
http://www.tlc-i.com/texis/tmp/news/may2002
Too bad we don’t have the 900 dollars to send off for the full report detailing specifics on which technology the Asian manufacture’s are putting the big bucks behind.

I finally saw the new DLP in the store last weekend. How do I word this, in my non-techy way?
The lettering with texts (something I judge severely on displays) had wonderful clarity and crispness. Very impressive, no jaggies etc?
I did find the pic. mildly irritating with a frenetic mirror like loud sharpness in color and detail. It was beautiful but I thought it might get tiring. I suppose settings could be greatly toned down in that area, but wonder how much of that effect is created by the choice of display screen material used.

Each of us have very subjective tastes but when ordering custom professional 35 prints, I always choose ‘matte’, with 100 speed enlargements (don’t like the ‘screen door’ effect in photography either). glossy’s are rarely appropriate to me except in a few specific-to-subject instances.
I guess I’m saying I was worried when I saw DLP I would go ‘ouch’ on the recent Sony purchase. While I would like to have the greater text definition and the Samsung was fantastic in certain areas, I prefer the closer to film look of a progressive DVD displayed without the harsher mirrorlike effect. The largest Samsung still seemed much smaller than the Sony (even though it is only a 4” diff?) and I’m already used to the Sony’s size and dimensions. The larger DLP seemed to effect more of a 4:3 boxy styled shape on the cabinet than I personally like also.

Now that's some slick investigatin' you got goin' on there little lady! I took a look around the net for that 50-inch Sony LCD and found that it goes for about $3,599, in Japan. I checked out the specs, and as best I could figure these newer units are incorperating a proprietary Sony digital connection (D.D.C. or direct digiatal connection) for High Definition. It also seems as if they are capable of displaying upwards of 1080i natively, which means that our Japanese comrades have upgraded the LCD panels to accomedate this, or so I interpreted. Also, according to the currency calculator, the new 60 inch model is going for about $3,999. I will keep looking into this for you until I can come up with more solid spec figures for ya'. In case those prices are a bit alarming to you, I just want to reassure you about buying the Gran Wega, Lena. That television of yours is one great piece of hardware, as I am sure you are aware, and you can rest assured that you have spent your money wisely and am sure you will enjoy it for years to come. Technology is always moving ahead and everything drops in price. Besides, these models haven't even reached our shores yet, and probably won't until next year or so.

If you would like a look at these units, here is a link to the Japanese site:
http://www.akd.co.jp/akiden/PV/KDF-60HD800/KDF-60HD800_big.jpg

Take care, Lena!

-Jeremy

Funny Pic. - Reminds me of the 3 bears,
This ones too soft
This ones too hard
THIS ones just right

No, not worried about the big expenditure, I knew going in I was taking a hit and odds were, within 6 months, the price could possibly drop 1K every month or so till it bottoms at prob. 2500. And something bigger/better is coming out every quarter. It only irked me I couldn't find the Samsung DLP's in stock the week I bought the Sony, to make sure about a possible contender available 'right' then.

I usually am a second/third generation buyer, (at least in Computer hardware) to take advantage of the price drops. But once in a moon.....just paying for the enjoyment of having it now, (and a BD deadline!).

And I am happier with the Sony every day; it really handles a variety of feeds and situations with great aplomb. The largest non-owner complaint (the black) seems very very minor in real world watching and tweaking with VE away from the factory setting improves this level greatly. Best specs on black level does not equate to best pic on the market, too many multiple factors combined I feel make up the level achieved of your final viewing experience on any unit.
The blocky pixelization you had noticed on the 60" Vs the 50, I'm only seeing faintly on very rare occasions (a DVD poorly mastered, or occasional footage on Satellite) for the rest, no matter how hard I stare you can't spot pixel structure, the pic is normally seamless and crisp. If the next generation improves on this one, it will be one incredible view.

I’m all over the map on the prog player, I see the one you like has its successor coming that might be worth waiting for but with a Fall? release don’t think I can wait that long, The short lived Sony I put into play is making me hanker for a progressive player now. Waiting on the real world capabilities of the Panny 82, and almost bought the Philips recorder last weekend, but was getting a ‘buggy’ impression from the web, and it seemed to compromise area’s for the record capability, -still trying to find a demo of your Pioneer and/or the Panny 91.

Edit: also looks if they bring the specs to America the new LCD will have the memory stick slot for digital camcorders.

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited July 17, 2002).]

lena,
in the search for players...
i realize it's been out for a good year or two,
but have you looked at the Kenwood Sovereign DV-5700? It's a changer, doesn't have SACD, but it DOES have Faroudja circuitry. Considering you've got an LCD display, I imagine this circuitry would not go unappreciated. Kenwood currently has two models with Faroudja.
Yamaha also makes a few players with the circuitry...the DVD-CX1, DV-C6480, and C920.
Listening to my friend's Sony SACD/DVD machine, it sounds great, but SACD selection is still woefully thin.
hope you find what you're looking for.
eric