eddyboy, Thanks for the follow up. When using any shipper we now know to ask Insurance questions first. And its always BUYER BEWARE, wheather its a big item purchase or shipping a sale item off. It's just a rip that MailBox's only pay on a damaged item if they package it. And UPS has the final word on their own insurance.

I guarantee that if you took MailBoxes to court, they'd lose in a heartbeat regarding the insurance thing...even if they didn't pack it. If they're taking your money(consideration-legal term), they're accepting the responsibility. Any attorney would be able to prove it. Problem is, attorney's fees can cost more than the product and are often unrecoverable even if you're awarded a judgement. Only thing you can do in the future is use another shipper. I just received a 770 today by FedEx today. Haven't plugged it in yet, but there's no damage to the exterior of the unit. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. They did manage to pop the staples on the bottom of the box, but the tape held...thank goodness.

I have just gone through a damage claim with FedEx on a damaged Paradigm speaker. The speaker was dropped hard enough to cause the magnets on the back of both tweeters (bi-polar model) to break off.

The shipper was a prick about the whole deal and didn't file the claim, but with FedEx Ground, I found out either party can file the damage claim.

After I stepped in to work with FedEx myself, I had a check in the mail within a week!!

Their customer support has been outstanding. In fact, one rep told me that they have been getting a lot of UPS's ground business because of many disgruntled customers.

fly guy

I sold my 750 on ebay and shipped it via fedex in the original box.

The new owner opened it and noticed the corner was slightly damaged. He opened the top and every single audio connector was snapped off the circuit boards.

Fedex refunded the money after a lengthy process. I'm sure glad I used fedex vs. UPS!.

Similar to what fly guy relates, I had a heavy, compact, self-powered subwoofer delivered to me in the original box without apparent damage on the outside. The box must have fallen off a shelf, a pallet, or off the truck somewhere in shipment and landed squarely on the side on a flat surface like a cement floor or asphalt road - no punctures or bent corners, but inside the double-box container the 1-inch MDF enclosure was cracked in several places and the magnet had snapped off of the driver's cast aluminum 'basket.' The very heavy magnet was now free to roam around inside the enclosure and 'crunch' on the built-in amplifier electronics during the remainder of the journey. The package was left at my door while no one was home.

FedEx wanted to brush me off, "No damage to the box on the outside? Shipper must have shipped you a damaged item. Not our fault." Very, very fortunately I had insisted that the seller take pictures of the item on the day he packed it. Not only of the item, but of every step in the process of packing it in the double-box container. Once the seller made a claim and included about eight of the images showing that a perfect conditon item was indeed carefully and properly packed, and once I sent about six images showing the damage, FedEx approved the claim. Somewhere between two and six weeks later, I was re-imbursed.

If you buy or ship anything worth more than $50 that is not brand new from the manufacturer, take pictures as if you you knew you were going to court - unless you want to risk more than $50.

Oh, the FedEx reimbursement doesn't include returning the demolishing fee, oops, I mean shipping fee, that FedEx originally charges.

just got a 750 today from ups. It came to within 1 hour of my house and was LOST! I sat for a week- waiting for word from ups. Shipper tells me he got it back! He sent it again. Took another 2 weeks to arrive (3 1/2 total). Box is ripped, styro is shattered, and positive speaker post for the 1st channel is popped off! Aggghhh ....!!!!

Such a very amazing link!

I have had two separate loudspeaker purchases arrive with the box in near pristine condition and yet the heavy driver magnet structure snapped off and rolled around in the cabinet destroying anything inside not initially broken. The best I can surmise is that the boxes were dropped in such a way as to land ‘flat’ on a side from a sufficient distance that the ‘sudden stop at the end’ was more than the welds holding the magnet structure to the loudspeaker’s metal frame could bear.

If a shipper wished to do so, they can attach what is basically a ‘warning: g-force rating exceeded’ device to the box. If the devices arrives showing white or clear, no excessive g-forces occurred during shipment. If the device arrives showing a red indicator, that box was certainly dropped, whether the box looks to be in good shape or not.

When buying new from a manufacturer or authorized seller, usually it’s up to the shipper to seek recompense and supply a replacement product, but do check a seller’s policies.

In my case, both purchases that were damaged were from private sellers. Very fortunately I had insisted, and they followed through, on taking pictures of the item just before and at each step during the packing process. Whether UPS or Fedex, both were not going to pay saying that “either the seller shipped a broken item to you and is trying to get money they don’t deserve, or they didn’t pack the item properly.” The images showing the item in good shape and being packed properly showed the seller was not at fault. The images I took of the damage ‘after shipping’ showed the condition of the delivered item. Only then did UPS or Fedex reluctantly pay.

My advice in a private sale: the person doing the shipping should take way too many pictures of all sides, top and bottom, and ‘the guts’ if one can see inside easily, of the item, plus all the packing, box-in-box and Styrofoam or other filler materials, before shipping!

You have been warned. Just do it!

My horror stories have been with FedEx not UPS but I think each shipper has its problems. My local FedEx delivery guy once forged my name on the delivery slip because the package was too heavy to take back to the truck! It was the 85 lbs ATI amp noted in my signature that was too much trouble to deliver properly. When I confronted the local FedEx supervisor after seeing online (I was at work at the time) that I'd accepted and signed for the delivery at home they deferred to the driver. He was a joke and said if the amp had been stolen from my porch he'd would have taken care of it. What a bunch of BS! I won't ship via FedEx as a result.

On the other hand I have spoken with my local UPS driver and let him know I get deliveries of rather fragile items on regular basis. We acknowledged there was nothing he could do until it is on his truck but he would take appropriate care with my deliveries.

I couldn't agree more with Bestban4thebuck's advice on taking pictures during packing regardless of the shipper. I'd also recommend taking pictures as you open a package. I have purchased a number of vintage Pioneer components over the last year or so and only 2/3rds of them have arrived undamaged. A vintage tuner was dropped by FedEx so hard it bent a 1/4 inch aluminum faceplate, bent knobs and switches and broke the glass. The photos I took as I opened the package convinced the seller to submit a claim and get FedEx to pay up. Just today I received a vintage receiver with a bent tuning knob/shaft and cracked glass. This one may be hard to pin on FedEx as the item was poorly packed but it obviously bounced around inside the box because of the way it was handled.

For my ebay purchases I contact the seller and offer to pay extra for shipping if they will double box, wrap the item in bubble wrap and pack the item so it absolutely can't shift up/down or side/side in the inner box. Most won't do it and say they've never had a problem with whatever shipper but a couple have and it was worth the extra $10 to $15. In one of those cases the box had obviously been dropped but the component was fine.

Now I'm off to take more pictures of my damaged receiver in hopes of getting the seller to refund me part of my purchase price. Wish me luck!

I understand the horror stories but having just had three completely different experiences, I believe a lot of fault, most of the time, lies with the seller or company packaging the unit.

I recently purchased a Parasound HCA-855A power amp on ebay. The seller first shipped a 1.5" tall Yamaha tuner which he had sold to someone else for the $30 which is what he also charged them for "shipping and handling". His "packaging" for the tuner was a single layer of cardboard that gapped around the product. Suffice it to say it did not arrive in pristine condition. Fortunately for me, the seller had no idea what had happened to the HCA-855A, so he arranged for a credit before it arrived. Three weeks later the power amp arrived. It was in a box with a footprint smaller then HCA-855A and enough paper in the bottom to allow the amp to fit by having the sides of the box bulge around the amp. He then bubble wrapped it enough to cover the top and front of the amp only and dropped it the box. The box was so tall, that there was at least 6" of open air over the top of the amp. Finally he (or USPS) wrapped the box in plastic straps. Several of these arrived broken. The amps rear handle is now bent, all 4 bottom corners were dinged and buckled and there are broken parts inside the amp that rattle around when you move it. To make matters worse when the amp did arrive, he:
1) claimed that was not how the amp was originally packaged and claimed the USPS must have reboxed it
2) told me that he did not insure it for what I had paid for it.

My third experience was with the Outlaw 750 I purchased to replace the HCA-855A. The person or packing company used some type of self forming foam pad that came in a plastic bag. There was a piece at the bottom, a piece around each corner and one on top and the box was completely filled and the amp was locked in place. Needless to say it arrived working perfectly.

The final thought was that the first seller also charged more for shipping and handling then the second seller, so clearly its not what you pay that determines the quality of the shipping.