I'm here at the CES show in Vegas. One of the most exciting products I've seen is from Outlaw Audio - the ULTIMATE tuner! It tunes over 1700 plus (and rapidly growing) stations off of the internet .... from all over the world ... id'ed by country, gendre, call letters .... crystal clear digital signals ... got WQXR FM (Classical Radio Station of NY Times)fron NYC here in Vegas ...sounded great! What a great idea!!!!!And of course, typical Outlaw high quality and internet direct low price of $299!!!

Soundog! Good man, keep the info flowing our way. It wouldn't be called the "IR1000" would it? (Hoping to confirm a guess I made this morning.) Any other noteworthy news, Outlaw or otherwise?

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Gonk

Interesting. Seems these would be pictures of it, incorrectly labelled on the web page:

http://www.gspr.com/Images/IR1000_front_300.jpg
http://www.gspr.com/Images/IR1000_rear_300.jpg

I have a couple new product suggestions:
1. Wireless version of this tuner(using 802.11b)
2. Low-Cost Wireless MP3 component that would stream MP3 or WMA files from your computer hard drive.

I hate having wires running all over the place, especially since I'm an apartment dweller and can't run them through the walls!

[This message has been edited by kenty (edited January 09, 2002).]

I agree. It's bad enough that I have speaker wires running across the hallway and a cable TV cable running from the TV to the computer "room". Start running ethernet to the A/V rack and things will become scary.

What I'd really like to see (and I don't think it will be Outlaw who will do this: not their specialty) would be an 802.11b "bridge" type device. There'd be a pair of devices that you would plug an ethernet cable into, and they'd talk. So far all the 802.11b solutions I've seen consist of a "base station" and then PCMCIA cards that go into the PCs. This does me no good because I have multiple desktops in one location, and the cable TV coming out of the wall in another. I'd rather not put an 802.11b endpoint in each PC; I'd rather have an endpoint that I can connect a cable and a hub to. Would solve IR1000 wireless problems, too.

hehehe, I've got both a phone jack and network drop right behind where my HT equipment will go in the new house! Cool!

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

Matthew,
I'm looking for the same thing. The problem is you've got an extra $100-$200 in turning a hardwired ethernet unit into wireless. I saw in one of the pictures that MP3 support is a possibility in the future. In my opinion, MP3 support, Internet Radio, and wireless in the $300-$400 range would be a home run.

I see someone else found the pics of the IR1000. Interesting looking product. If it had MP3 support, it'd be even more interesting. The 802.11 would be extremely nice.

Matthew, the 802.11 "bridge" you're describing sounds almost like wireless 2-piece hub -- which would likely be a tall order. Why not just hang the wireless base station on your hub and get PCI or PCMCIA wireless network cards for any computers that stray too far from the hub (which is what I've done with my fiancee's notebook)? One base will serve multiple clients (including devices like an 802.11b radio tuner), and the computers close to the hub would remain connected with cat5. (In other words, I think I've missed something in what you're looking for... )

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Gonk

- You lucky (soon to be) new-house homeowner. Some of us with older houses are lucky to have power behind our HT equipment. Good planning ahead on your part, by the way.

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Gonk

It would be nice to have everything hardwired, however if I was going to build a house right now I don't think I go through the expense of running CAT-5 cable everywhere. I'm sure most people feel the same way...wireless is the future, I just hope the outlaws jump on the bus!

(Wandering off topic for a moment...) Cat5 isn't a bad thing -- for some applications it is better than wireless (it'll take a long while to get as much bandwidth over wireless as you can do right now with 100base-T, and there's not the security concern with a hardwired connection). A lot of commercial buildings use Cat5 for both voice and data, partly because it gives you flexibility later (you could convert voice to data if you needed to and switching to voice over IP for the phones would not be a problem, for example) and partly because it's not really much additional cost (especially if it's installed in conduit or spaces where you don't need plenum-rated). I would probably not run Cat5 everywhere, but I might drop in select places with a run or two (entertainment center, office/study, spare rooms, and/or bedrooms) since there shouldn't be much additional cost -- and you can terminate it all yourself and save some cash, too. For existing homes and notebook computers, though, wireless is absolutely awesome.

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Gonk

Gonk, the problem is this:

(1) ALL the computers "stray too far from the hub" and there are a lot of them. They're all in the same place, though, so it makes sense for them to have their own wired hub and a single wireless link to the place where the cable modem is.

(2) By far most of my IP traffic is from computer to computer (with one acting as a fileserver, another as a print server, etc.) and for both performance and security reasons I'd rather this traffic not go over the air.

(3) Some of the computers do not support 802.11b cards.

(4) There's still the IR1000, which can't take an 802.11b card, unless it has a built-in PCMCIA slot, which I highly doubt.

Hmm... I wonder if the IR1000 will suck PCM or MP3 files automatically off a PC, or if it requires a streaming connection from a "radio station" to do its magic...

I was seriously considering the Audiotron-
http://www.audiotron.net from Turtle Beach. Looks like a killer product, but is missing the wireless connection. That was before I knew Outlaw might be entering the market. I think I'll hold off for a while and see how things shake down.

Actually, my builder had already planned on home runs of CAT5 for the phone lines to two rooms. All I did was pay to have outlets (and their associated home run CAT5) to all other rooms (4 at $135 ea). I then was able to later talk them into running a *PAIR* of CAT5's instead of just one to each outlet. The second one will be terminated with RJ45's. Due to a screw up on their part regarding my foundation & plot plan (in short its a raised ranch and the grade was supposed to be low enough to allow full size windows in back of the ground floor ... didn't happen), they ended up giving me the extra wire & jacks for free.


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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

Get an Audiotron!!!

It is a killer product.. I own one and I have been nothing but happy with it. Streaming Internet Radio Stations with an entire collection of MP3's.. Can't beat it.

It looks just like another piece of Audio equipment in my home theater rack. I had archived my entire cd collection to archival bitrate MP3's and I had my computer hooked up to the home theater system.

I decided the computer was taking up too much space in the living room and I went searching for something that would play my MP3's from my computer WITHOUT having to copy them over to a standalone MP3 jukebox (I am already storing them on the computer) The audiotron was the answer. I can stream my MP3's over my home network right to my hometheater rack. An added bonus is when they put in streaming support for Internet Radio Stations, playlists, favorites... Its kind of like a virtually unlimited CD jukebox plus (Its current physical limit is about 30,000 MP3's).

http://www.audiotron.net/audiotron.asp for all the details... I'd be glad to answer anyones questions about it... Its the SAME price factory direct as the IR1000 for $299

Jeff

Jeff,
Does it currently support internet radio stations?

Thanks,
Kent

Yes.

The Audiotron is a fully-fledged internet radio station receiver AND a network MP3 streamer. Go to www.turtleradio.com for more info. Its a free service through TurtleBeach.

On a side note: Nice part about the Audiotron is when they update firmware, its a matter of downloading the newest version and letting the onboard update utility update the firmware. New features are added all the time.

Jeff

Looks like a decent product. And, it has SP/DIF output, which the Outlaws seem to lack; a serious omission. Also, it looks like the Outlaws don't support MP3 yet. Interesting that they chose WMA to implement first, I would have thought that the open standard would have come first and the proprietary stuff later.

I seem to remember a Windows CE sticker on the back of the Outlaw internet radio. If they are using the ce operating system, then the WMA support makes perfect sense.

Kent

The SP/DIF was one of the most important selling points for me. I wanted a digital connection to my receiver. No other digital music appliance had that. I guess the trend continues. You would have thought the guys at outlaw would have put one in.

FYI: The Audiotron runs on windows CE as well.

You would have thought the Outlaws would have used something a little more sensible than CE, too.

Also, notice that this thread is in its own forum now?

I'm sure a lot of the audio handling is built right into the CE operating system. Probably made the development of this product a lot simpler from the software side. Of course I'm not a programmer, so I could be wrong.


[This message has been edited by kenty (edited January 14, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by kenty (edited January 14, 2002).]

If you would like to read my full report on Outlaw at CES please see:

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/ces2002/home_theater/index.shtml

Nigel Pond
SMR Group (http://www.smr-group.co.uk)
SMR Home Theatre (http://www.smr-home-theatre.org)
SMR Forums (http://www.smr-forums.com)
SMR Archive (http://www.smr-archive.com)
HighFidelityReview.com (http://www.highfidelityreview.com)

Here's a wireless bridge that you may be able to use with the IR1000.

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=157

Or you can use their wireless USB adapter, but you'd need to add a USB to ethernet adaptor.

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=174



[This message has been edited by patmunn (edited January 14, 2002).]

One thing the ad doesn't mention is whether or not you can use two of these things to bridge two existing networks, or if they can only talk to individual cards and not each other.

I don't know if using USB as a bridge would work, anyone actually tried this? Plus it's only a $20 more to just buy the Wireless access point(as opposed to the two adaptors). More future proof.

I meant actually using to WAPs to connect two ethernets with a big empty space in between them. No wireless cards in any of the PCs involved.

Check out this link to the wap11 manual.

ftp://ftp.linksys.com/pdf/wap11ug.pdf

On page 24 of the manual (not the pdf) it talks about a wireless bridge. I think that is what you're looking for.

I guess all you need is one of these and a 4 port hub behind your HT. Then you can plug in your IR1000, X-Box, and your Replay TV.

[This message has been edited by patmunn (edited January 14, 2002).]

So basically, If I were to go wireless with an IR1000 I would need the following
2 Wireless Access points (1 as a node connected to my router on my hardwired network and 1 behind the entertainment center containing the IR1000) Those two should act as a bridge right? then I just run the Cat-5 to the IR1000 and I'm all set.
Unfortunately that costs about $130/each for the WAP's and $300 for the IR1000. But as was noted, once the initial investment is made you're wireless broadband is set to serve all of your internet enabled toys. Hmmm, I'll have to think about that one. I still wish they would just make a wireless version of this so I could cut out the second WAP. Even if they did a version without the RJ-45 jack and instead put in a pcmcia slot that would be better. Those wireless pcmcia cards only run about $50 now.
I actually e-mailed Audiotron about this and they said they have no plans to go wireless. Someone will do it sooner or later, guess I either have to shell out for the extra WAP or wait and save a few bucks--I've never been good at waiting

Wow, that is way cool. I didn't know you could use those things to do that; I thought they only talked to PC card clients. Its interesting to note that you can also set the things up to NOT talk to PC card clients... this should prevent drive-by hacking, or at least make it harder.

Thanks for the info. This will help me to eliminate quite a few of the wires running around my living room. Once my budget recovers from what I've set aside for the 950 and the 770...

Back to the cat 5 being run in a house. They no longer manufacture cat 3 phone cable, so it's all cat 5 now. Being a Master electrician with 17 years experience and seeing the prices quoted for the wireless network it would still be cheaper to run a single phone cable from your network and install a jack for the radio. It's also standard practice to in stall a phone jack next to every coax jack.

I also know a guy whose company is working on the design and manufacture of a chip that decodes 802.11b and Bluetooth.

Yes, yours is an excellent idea and definitely the route I would take if I was not renting, and therefore unallowed to open the walls.

I know this is a little off of the Outlaw topic, but does anyone know what network file system protocalls the Audiotron speaks. ie. do I have to add SAMBA to my system or does it know appletalk or nfs?
Aaron

The Audiotron uses standard Windows file sharing (SMB) for its LAN playback capability. It can also play net radio streams using Shoutcast or Icecast protocol.

Hmm. My network also uses Appletalk and NFS (Linux PCs & Macs) and I'd really rather not add Samba to the mix just for a tuner. Anybody know if competing products will run over Appletalk or NFS? Audiotron, maybe?

The IR1000 seems to be just a bit too Windows-centric (Runs on WinCE, understands WMA but not MP3) for my tastes.

Unless they plan on upgrading it to add these features.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

From the Outlaw IR-1000 "Press Release" page of the Outlaw site:



Looks like MP3 is definitely planned. How and in what manner remains to be seen.

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

As for the Audiotron's network support, I got this from the Audiotron site:



Based on that, I'd say that you're looking at needing either a Windows-centric network or a network that at least allows for Samba to get the Audiotron going. (Samba's not too hard to get up and running, but I can see where it would be irritating to have to add another protocol for a single device. I think the included software is Windows only, too, but I'm not certain.

As for the Windows-centric nature of the IR1000, it's sort of hard to say still -- there's not enough info about it. WindowsCE is one of the few OS's around for a device like this. Linux would also have been an alternative (one of the few, possibly the only other), but I got the impression that part of the reason the IR1000 exists is that one of Outlaw's partners came up with something (probably software) that triggered the whole thing, and that original tech may have limited their options. It's also possible that going with WinCE gave them WMA support "out of the box." (Edit: Follow-up thought -- there's no way I know of to play back WMA under Linux, which may have helped push them to WinCE.) Either way, it's all speculation still. I've asked them about the IR1000 a couple times, and one time I did get pretty clear confirmation that MP3 is in its future. Time will tell...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

[This message has been edited by gonk (edited April 30, 2002).]

Peter called last night on an unrelated subject, but before we got off the phone, I asked about the IR1000 and MP3. He said that it will play MP3s. He's not in charge of this project (the 950 has kept him quite busy, thank you ), so he doesn't know the detailed plans, nor if that support will be there when the first units ship. However, since this will be an internet appliance, updating it's capabilities online are a given.

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pat----

email: pat@sklenar.info ---===--- home page: Grumpy's Lair

Gonk: I wouldn't be surprised if WMA pushed them to CE, it's one of M$'s classic marketing tactics. Of course, it begs the question: why WMA at all? There are quite a few perfectly good compression protocols already out there.

WMA makes me nervous, not just because of its connection to Microsoft, but also because of some rather suspect copy protection features built into it.

I'm going to stop now, lest this become a discussion on the comparative economics of the PC world, rather than a discussion of the IR1000's capabilities.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

We need to keep one thing in mind -- the IR1000 is focused on being a tuner only, not a front-end for a computer audio library (which makes it a good bit different from the Audiotron, which was designed to be a front-end and had the Internet tuner software added later). As such, there are only a few choices of formats for the IR1000: WMA (due to Microsoft's "take over the market by giving away the product" scheme that worked so well with IE), MP3, RealAudio (gag -- can we say "messy"?), Quicktime, and maybe Ogg Vorbis. At the moment, the IR1000 will support WMA at launch and MP3 shortly afterward.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Or QNX or VxWorks or even embedded NT .....

Actually there are a ton of alternatives for embedded stuff, esp. if you stick to real standards (mp3, etc.) rather than 'MicroStandards', but WinCE might have looked good to a WinCentric engineer.

Charlie