I am just curious if others out there do the same thing when faced with this kind of dilemma....there must be others who have similar circumstances with setting up equipment that both require initial set up......small/large speakers, distance calibration, crossover settings, channel calibration...etc......do you set your DVD players settings to "0", and do all of the adjustments from the 950............just want to make sure I am understanding it all.....
DVD player says to set up pre-amp first, and pre-amp says to set up DVD player first...????? Tough one when both pieces are new additions.......
I guess I will fake it and hope for the best.........
any more ideas before I commit???

Here's my conclusion in terms of how things work:

The distance, level, small/large settings in the player *only* affect its analog outputs.

The distance and small/large (crossover) settings in the 950 affect only the digital inputs (or, analog inputs that are converted to digital). The level settings in the 950 affect both the digital and analog inputs.

Hope that helps...

I don't think the 3800 redirects LFE to the mains if the subwoofer is set to "off". It'll just ignore whatever is on that channel. This is the case for DVD-A as well as DD and DTS that are decoded by the 3800's DACs. Unfortunately, Denon believes the "redirect" functionality belongs exclusively to the receiver or pre/pro, not DVD players.

To be sure, you can test this by using a setup DVD that has a test tone or channel ID for LFE only (Avia has such a track). Using your digital output from the Denon, you will hear the material. When you switch to the analog output, you won't get anything.

My observations were made on a Denon 2900 and I asked Denon for the rationale given above. I'm pretty sure the 3800 shares the same implementation

[This message has been edited by DollarBill (edited October 06, 2003).]

[quote]I don't think the 3800 redirects LFE to the mains if the subwoofer is set to "off". It'll just ignore whatever is on that channel. This is the case for DVD-A as well as DD and DTS that are decoded by the 3800's DACs. Unfortunately, Denon believes the "redirect" functionality belongs exclusively to the receiver or pre/pro, not DVD players.

So you are saying if I set the DVD3800 to "no subwoofer", then any low freq. signal is ignored.......wow!!!! Now I'm really confused!
Would it be OK to use the subwoofer out on the DVD player and plug into the 950 multi channel subwoofer input, then let the 950 "know" there is no subwoofer, and make the adjustments from there......
I didn't think by telling the DVD player there is no subwoofer that it would then not pass the signal along somehow.......Am I making sense?????

DVD-Audio (and SACD) bass management has historically been pretty woeful at best -- that's the entire reason that Outlaw cooked up the ICBM-1. The 950's analog bass management is limited to a fixed 80Hz crossover, with no way to steer information away from the sub (the digital bass management is capable of this, of course, but when using the 5.1 direct input you are bypassing all digital processing, including the digital bass management). If the Denon can't re-direct LFE to the mains internally when playing DVD-Audio discs, about the only way to get that signal merged in is to use the ICBM or something similar. Without using an ICBM for bass management on the 3800's analog output, the only way I know of for you to get the LFE signal on DVD-Audio to work would be to change your setup and connect the subs in the DefTech 2000's to the 950's LFE output rather than splitting the mains' preamp outputs. If you don't want to do that but are serious about retaining that LFE signal, you could put an ICBM between the 3800 and the 950, disable the 950's analog bass management (the toggle switch on the back), and use the ICBM to fold the LFE signal from the 3800 into the left and right channels.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Daddy_guy,

You should verify that your system behaves similarly to mine as I described above. It took me a couple of weeks to sort it out and Denon confirmed that the behavior is intentional.

Gonk's suggestion on the use of an ICBM is a good one and you'd have even more flexibilty than the Denon's bass management provides.

Player:

All speakers to 'large', subwoofer to 'yes'

950:

Analog BM to 'on'

Digital BM, all speakers to 'small', x-overs to 80 Hz.

Switch the JBLs to surround L/R and the Citations to surround back L/R.

Use a 'Y' jack from the 950's SW out to feed the 2 powered subs. The rare occasions when stereo subs might be useful doesn't outweigh the loss of the LFE signal.

Distance settings:

Place your speakers using a tape measure, getting them all as close to the same distance to the listening position as possible, then set the player's distance settings accordingly as well as the 950's (both the same settings).

Then...and this is the really important part...jam some multi channel hits REALLY LOUD.

OK, OK.....after getting everything hooked up, and fooling around with it all for a few days, all I can say is.....WOWWY!!
The 950/755(and DenonDVD3800) combination is a beautiful thing! I am just getting used to most everything, and first impressions are incredible. Versatile, kick butt sound and pictures.....this is a system that should kick @$$ for quite a while......My quest for the grail is over for now...(and it was within my budget, too).......WOW!!!!
It's good to be an Outlaw!!!

bossobass

In an e-mail regarding this same problem I was worried about, I was specifically told by Scott - quote "As long as your front speakers are set to "large" and your sub is set to
"none", the LFE info will be directed to your front speakers. The small
setting is to activate the cross-over frequency for that speaker. The
crossover would then redirect that bass info to a sub (or to "large" mains
when sub is set to "none").
I had the same worry.....would I lose all LFE effects by doing it the way Def Tech said to do it? With "stereo" subs? Not according to Scott, and I must say, it is working like a champ...but I am tempted to try the "y" from the sub output........just to see (or hear) what happens...right now though, it sounds so good, I am just gonna soak it up for a while....this combo....950/755/ Fosgate 4100 Amp/ Denon DVD3800 rocks!!!! I am still learning, and being amazed! I like the idea of switching the JBLs and the Citations, but it is not practical in my room.....
I feel like everything in my system is new again.....laserdiscs, video tapes, cassettes, records........it's just so cool!!!!
Outlaw and Denon .....pretty good match!

Sorry d_g, I placed the statement in the wrong place regarding the confusion of your player's ability to redirect the LFE signal.

I just offered the simplest scheme to get you up and running correctly.

As for mains set to large and sub to 'no' in the 950, Scott is correct.

I guess I don't fully understand the Def Techs. If the suggestion from them is to use 'Y' jacks from the FR/FL outputs of the 950, then I stand by my recommendation above as being a better scheme.

Setting mains to 'small' and sub to 'yes' routes all bass info to the SW output, whereas setting mains to 'large' and sub to 'no' sends full range FR/FL info plus redirected bass from any other 'small' speakers plus full range LFE to the mains and the subs through 'Y' jacks off the FR/FL. If I misunderstood, I apologize for the confusion.

Also, once you sum the mono LFE signal equally into the FR/FL channels, stereo bass will disappear.

Try both and let me know.

BTW, I have really enjoyed your posts. Congrats on a very cool setup that you're very obviously enjoying.