Could someone please sell me on the 950 vs. an A/V receiver (say the Denon 3803).

I wanted to get the package deal, (950 and 7100), but really like the features an A/V Receiver provides. Right now I am thinking of getting the 3803 (or comparable receiver) and the 7100 for the amp.

Why is the 950 better then a mid-range A/V receiver?

Thanks.

If you plan on getting the 7100 regardless, I honestly don't think you could go wrong with either but the Outlaw combo will save you some money. I agree though, I like the feature set on most of the new receivers now over the 950, but I really love the sound of the 950 so I doubt I will make any lateral moves just for a feature set. Since you are starting at square one, do what you feel comfortable with. Also, remember the places you find the 3803 equal to the 950 in price Denon will not honor the warranty, but I am sure you know that.

For what it's worth, I have had a Denon 3600 for the past six years. I recently added an ADCOM 7700 5 channel amp to the pre-outputs. The sound was dramatically improved. Then,I bought a 950 last week and will be returning it. Don't misunderstand, I think the 950 is a great deal. Its just that when I compared the sound of 2 channel source (CD) on bypass, and the Dolby Digital processing through both units, I couldn't tell the difference. My Denon is easier to configure and operate. The specs on both units bears this out in terms of S/N ratios and distortion. I don't care much for surround processing of 2 channel sources, so the Cirrus chips are not important to me. If ;you have SACD you will need 6 channel analog inputs with bass management. If you plan on upgrading either pre-pro or amp in the next few years, going with separates makes sense. Outlaw needs to work on the ergonomics of the face and remote, the ability to relabel inputs, a better tuner, and lower noise floor (there is less hiss in the analog inputs with my Denon). I really believe you get alot for your money with the combination, especially if upgrading is in your future. THe sound through the 950 is truly excellent-clear, well-defined, spacious, and conveys music very realistically. I believe the amp from Outlaw may never need to be upgraded, their quality is so good. I hope this helps in some way. Good Luck!

would the sound really improve by adding a amp to the denon, or would it basically still sound like the denon. the 3803 on paper looks great, but both times i have auditioned it seems blah.....left me wanting more, it was clear and defined but lacked punch, i should add that i listened to two channel stero both times. my quandry is get a good a/v reciever or go with the outlaw 950/7100. both would b a vast improvement over my non-es sony

I think the 7100 would offer more power. I just read HT's review of the 2803 which Denon (on the crutchfield site) claims is a 90w/ch receiver. HT's lab measurements on the 2803 showed with 5 channels driven 8 ohms, 35W, 0.1% distortion. It put out 40W at 1%. With only 2 channels driven, the 2803 puts out 126W/ch. @0.1% distortion or you can really tell the P/S is insufficient for all channels.
Basically, I think receivers probably don't have beefy enough transformers/power supplies to drive all channels to full power. The 7100 on the other hand uses seperate windings for each channel & each channel has it's own caps. Hence all channels can be driven to full power simultenously.
Note the review was on the 2803 not the 3803. I have no data on the 3803.

I have to agree with you guys. I think the power in these mid-range A/V receivers leaves much to be desired. I am really excited about the 7100 as far as bang for the buck goes, and getting 7 channels of clean power.

I will definitely get a seperate amp, and the 7100 seems by far to be the best choice in my price range. From what I heard so far it looks like the A/V receiver may be a better choice for me. Still looking for any info or opinions why a dedicated pre/pro like the 950 would serve me better than an A/V receiver like the Denon 3803 or the Pioneer Elite 53tx - both of which can be had for a little more than the 950.

Thanks.

We just got a Pioneer Elite vsx-45tx and find it to be an incredible bargain for the money.

I believe What? HiFi (UK magazine) just loves the UK version of this Pioneer unit.

Sound and Vision tested the AVR-2803 and with 6 channels driven it measured 75 watts with <.03$ THD

Gerry,
You asked could someone sell you on the 950 vs a A/V receiver [Denon 3800]. I have not owned the Denon 3800 but I have owned the Denon 3300 for a number of years. I liked the 3300, but after a couple of speaker up grades, I just wanted to tweak a little. You know, always wanting to hear just a little more detail, cleaner, something.. I tried the Outlaw 750 for the thirty day trial and liked what I heard along with the Denon. I thought the sound improved, a little cleaner, more punch and just a better quality of sound. I kept the 750, a little while later the 950 was released. I removed the Denon and added the 950 for another 30 day trial. I never looked back. I finally had made the jump to seperates. The Denon 3300 was a good product and it cost $1100 new. The Outlaw was even less and the improved overall sound, the flexibility of separates made it a good decision for me. Of course a new Lexicon or a upgraded 950 II would be nice and with seperates I only have to remove half for a home trial.

Dobeman, I'm new to this forum and was reading your reply in this forum about the "upgraded 950 II". Are you referring to the latest production model of the 950 or is there a newer version available??? Thanks for anyones reply on this. I am extremely attracted to the $799 price tag on this pre/pro/tuner and would like to finally relegate the Onkyo 777 receiver model to the bedroom.