I need some help trying to decide wether to sell my current rig and become an Outlaw myself.

Here is a list of my equipment:
- Parasound P/SP 1500 Prologic preamp
- Parasound P/DD 1500 Dolby Digital decoder
- Parasound HCA 1203 140 watts x 3 amp
- Parasound HCA 750 75 watts x 2 amp
- Sony C222ES SACD player
- Denon DVD 1600 DVD/DVD-A player
- Vandersteen 2CE Signature mains
- Vandersteen center

But here's what I've got going on with it...
I can't use the PDD 1500 Dolby Digital decoder because it doesn't accept the 96 KHz bitstream from the Denon DVD player and there is no provision for downsampling the bitstream to 48 KHz. Therefore, I'm using the built-in Dolby Digital and DTS decoders on the Denon (yuck!). To make things worse, the PSP 1500 Preamp's 5.1 input uses only a DB25 connector! The difference in sound between the DB25 and RCA connection is profound! I can't believe DB25 was ever used with how bad it sounds. So I'd like to upgrade the preamp with a more up-to-date model.

OK, what I have an opportunity to do is sell all of the Parasound gear and replace it with Outlaw. I was thinking of getting the 950/755 combo with 2 M200s, but still run it as a 5.1 system (biamp the Vandersteen 2 CEs).

However, I'm a little skeptical about the Outlaw gear. I've read a lot of reviews, both online and in magazines, and everyone seems to love the Outlaws. I'm convinced that I'd be upgrading by leaps and bounds for HT, but I don't want to do it at the expense of 2 channel music.

I am a devout 2 channel audiophile. I only listen to the stereo tracks on both DVD-A and SACD. I'd say I spend 85% of my time with music and 15% with HT. However, I am very critical of the sound during that 15% I spend with HT.

My complaints with the Parasound on 2 channel playback is that it is quite forward sounding and brutally fatiguing on badly recorded discs. There is also some edge to the upper midrange. However, I absolutely love how tall and wide the soundstage is. Coupled with the Vandersteens the Parasound throws out a HUGE soundstage, albeit a little forward. I'd like to achieve a deepening of the soundstage and gain some warmth on the upper mids.

In the Jan/Feb 2003 issue of the Perfect Vision, Wayne Garcia describes the Outlaw's sound as being "beautiful, sweet and warm" for 2 channel music. I wanted to get people's feedback on this. How does the 950/755 sound for music? Does it really sound warm like Wayne Garcia says? Does it throw a big soundstage?

My Parasound gear retailed for about $4000 back in it's day. Could a $2600 rig of today sound better? (particularly with the mains biamped using 4 200 watt channels!)

Other gear I was considering was of course the Rotel 1066 and amps, but I didn't really like it - too bright (demoed on Paradigm Studio 80s). I'm also considering the B&K Reference 50 pre/pro with Reference Amps, or McCormack MAP1 Preamp and DNA amps, but either of these routes would be way too expensive to do in one shot.

Sorry for the long message, but please help!

You have some sweet equipment there. I would exchange the 950 for the 1500 units.
I truly believe you will be pleased with it acoustically, and well as functionially, especially at $800. I believe you will realize a not too subtle enhancment to your overall system.
Parasounds are nice amps and you are feeding some very fine speakers. But B&K amps could smooth or warm up the sound if only a tad.
2 channel sound can only be an improvement not to mention the digital processing will open a new world to you in HT.
No, it may not be on par with a McCormack, Tag McClaren, or Lexicon for sure. I don't think it will be that much of a step down from a B&K 50.
I would carefully read the comments here.
And make sure any negatives to the 950 are things you can live with, such as the variance of input levels when selecting sources, etc. They are a few 'nusiances' not really problems. But you be the judge.

Thanks Dale.
So do you think it's worth upgrading to the 755 as well? Keep in mind I'd be using it to biamp the mains.

I also don't think any of the quirks that I've heard of for the 950 will bug me too much. I'm really only interested in how the thing sounds. My listening sessions are such that I don't really change inputs often enough to be bothered by differing input gains. The bass management doesn't concern me either because I turn off my sub when I listen to 2 channel music anyway.

In all fairness, I could not speak to the 755 as how it would match your system.
I am sure it's a fine amp.
You may want to check out the reviews on it in the forum and elsewhere, and learn more about the nature of it's sound.
I am running a B&K REf amp, 3 ch, the 3220 with an M&K speaker system. They complement each other very nicely. I am ruuning the inexpensive Audiosource AmpOne for my 2 surrounds. I wanted a cheap way out in case I decide to go to 6 or 7.1 at some point.
The 950 was my first break into separates and it is a welcome change.

DMF,

I am a big parasound fan: I use two 2200IIs, 806, cdc1500 changer, and have owned 1500A, 1205A,800II amps and the excellent dac1600. I also used your psp1500/pdd1500 (I had the pdd1550 with dts) for a few weeks recently as my Aragon Soundstage was getting upgraded. I am not a big Outlaw 950 supporter LOL ....but I think the 950 would beat your Parasound combo in most areas...DPL2 and the 7.1 modes are much better than DPL and 5.1 if you can setup 7 speakers correctly. 2 channel performance is not great...IMO, you should buy the 950 and try it.

On the amps, I would keep your Parasounds and just add a 2 channel Parasound (ie, a 1500A 205x2 or 1000A 130x2) to drive your mains and round out your 7 amp channels. Why sell your nice amps at a discount and buy new amps that are a lateral move? That's not good economics. In fact, you can probably find a used 2 channel Parasound on ebay.

IMO, with your emphasis on 2 channel, I would suggest the following:
- Parasound 1500A 205x2 (~450 used)
- Outlaw 950 (799)
- used Rogue 66 Magnum tube preamp with HT bypass unity gain (~ 800 used, see Audiogon.com)

Ricky,

It's funny you mention that because that was one of the EXACT scenarios I was considering. I really liked the Rogue 66 Magnum when I listened to it but have been a little intimidated by going the tube route. I've been seriously considering the 1500A, but what I'd really like is one of those 2200IIs that you have.

I really don't want to have to have two preamps in my system so I was hoping to get an AV Pre/Pro that sounded good with 2 channel audio as well. Oh well, I guess it doesn't exist in this price range.

Just my opinion, but I do not think you are going to get one unit as a preamp and be happy based on your equipment and your desires. I have only had the 950 for about 2 weeks, but I have enjoyed movies and TV more than anytime in the past. For 2 channel I am still using a Tube Preamp with a HT loop. It is worth it to me to do it that way. I just don't think the All in one Processors that I have heard can match a good 2 channel Preamp for analog. That is why the Outlaw 950 is a great way to go. I can have the DPL II and other digital modes I have been missing at a great price and still enjoy great 2 channel. I have not totally made up my mind to keep the Outlaw, but that has nothing to do with it as a Processor.

I am on the fence whether to buy the 950/755 or 950/7100 combo. It sounds like the 950 may not be the greatest pre-amp for 2-channel stereo. I currently have a 2-channel BK components pro-10mc 2-channel pre-amp. Is the HT loop you are referring to running the analog connection of the DVD player that I use for CDs into the BK, and then run the BK into the 950 analog input using the bypass mode? The one downside of this for me would be that I would be using the cheaper DACs of the Panasonic DVD player. Maybe it would be worth an outboard DAC or a better dedicated CD player? In contrast, a digital connection for the Panasonic allows me to use the 950s DAC, but at the expense of this alleged reduction in
2-channel sound quality.

Patmos,
I think you might have things backwards. IMO, the best way to hook up your system would be to use the digital connection to your 950 just the way you have it now. BUT, send the front left and right preamp outputs of the 950 to one of the audio inputs of your B&K preamp. This way you get to use the DACs on the 950 and still benefit from the preamplifier stage of your B&K. In essence, for stereo playback you'd be using the 950 as an outboard DAC for your Panasonic DVD player.

You'll have to be careful with channel balancing when running 5.1. The HT bypass, that many stereo preamps have, bypasses their own volume control allowing you to calibrate and control the volume from the AV pre/pro that is hooked into it. However, you'd just have to find the correct volume level on your stereo preamp if you don't have the bypass. Just mark it with a little sticker or something.

Hope this wasn't too confusing.

[This message has been edited by DMF131 (edited July 31, 2003).]

I'd also like to mention that I actually like my 2 channel playback from my current Parasound Preamp. My only complaint is the slight forwardness and edginess to the upper midrange. Does anyone think that the Outlaw would sound worse than my Parasound in stereo?

I can't really afford to buy a 950 AND another stereo preamp.

DMF,

If you don't spend the ~ 1200 on the 755 amp, I thought you would have about enough to get a Parasound amp and a used Rogue with Unity Gain bypass (ie, the Rogue's volume can be disabled with a flick of a switch). Opps (edit)...I forgot that you would sell the 1203/750 amps to pay for most of the 755 price.

Another option for your is the Citation 7.0 preamp with the MSB 5.1 inputs (retail 4k plus ~ 500 for the upgrade....now, about 650 used if you can find the rare 5.1 inputs; 7.0 units w/o 5.1 are ~ 300 used). If you go to videogon.com and search for Citation, you should see one available. The Citation's 2 channel direct mode holds its own against highend solid state 2 channel only analog preamps. If DVDs are your only 5.1, dd/dts source, you can run the DVD player's 5.1 dd/dts outputs into the Citation 5.1 inputs (many DVD players have these decoders built-in, not sure about your Denon 1600). Also, IMO the redbook dacs in the 950 are comparable to those in your Denon 1600, Sony 222es players....and not as good as newer, more expensive DVD players like the Denon 2900.



[This message has been edited by Ricky (edited July 31, 2003).]

DMF131, thanks for the suggestion.
Still a bit confused though. Do I then run the BK analog preouts back to the 950 analog inputs using bypass mode? Preouts from the BK directly to the front L/R amp channel inputs would then eliminate ability of the 950 to access these 2 channels for 5.1, tuner, or anything else.
Is there such a thing as doubling up inputs to the amp inputs from both the BK and 950, or is this asking for trouble?
Also, any thoughts on musicality of the 950, and also of the 755 or 7100? Thanks.

Ricky,
Thanks for the help. I think I will look around for the Citation 7.0. I hadn't even considered that. What about the higher end Outlaw that's in the works? Any opinions on whether that might be worth waiting for?

Patmos,
I'll try to explain the connections here, but a diagram is really what I need to explain it.

Here's what I would do:

- Connect the Panasonic DVD player to the 950 digitally.
- Connect the 950's LR Main pre-outs to your B&K Preamp's CD input.
- Connect the B&K pre-outs to the amp.
- Basically the 950 is an outboard DAC this way. However, you will have two places to control the volume - the 950 and the B&K.
- I would temporarily connect the Panasonic's analog outputs to another input on the B&K while keeping the rest of the system connected the same was as described above. Then I would play a CD selecting the input on your B&K where the Panasonic is directly connected. Now switch to the input on the B&K where the 950 is connected. There should be a difference in volume between the two inputs. Merely adjust the volume on the 950 until it's the same volume as the Panasonic direct connection. Mark the 950's volume level (or write it down) and always leave the 950's volume at this level when listening to CDs. You would now use the B&K for volume control.

- Setting things up for surround will be a little tricky too, but it's the same concept. This time, you'll be using the 950 for volume control. So when you calibrate your channel levels, I'd set the mains to 0 on the 950. Then I'd set the center at 0 and use a SPL meter to check the level. Match the level of the rears to this. Now you'll need to match the main channel levels to this SPL. Just adjust it using the B&K volume control. Again, you'll have to mark it, write it down, or remember this volume level on the B&K so that you can always have it at that level for surround listening. Then you can use the 950's volume control for the master volume.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by DMF131 (edited July 31, 2003).]

DMF131,
Thanks for the assistance. It certainly seems logical the way you have described the hookup. No diagram necessary.
All would be good assuming that the part of the circuitry in the 950 that some have claimed compromises 2-channel sound ISN'T
what the signal will be routed through when it goes through the DAC and out the main pre-outs. If so, maybe the BK in the end takes the edge off and returns the sound to what I have been accustomed to?? An easy thing to try if I can make up my mind an buy the Outlaws.
I really want the 950/755, but my practical side tells me to buy the 950/7100, giving me all 7 channels in 1 box, what should be plenty of power, and hopefully very close to as good of sound (less $400) as the 755. Shouldn't have to reinforce the entertainment center either!

DMF-- Thought I'd reply to your post as I also have a Sony 222ES which I use for CD and SACD play. It is hooked up to my 950 (with the 770 for amplification) through the analog connections, so playback is in bypass mode for both CD and SACD. I had a CAL Audio Sigma II DAC with a tubed output stage in the mix, but now only use the 222ES setup as mentioned above for CD listening now, as it sounds fine to my ears. I like to apply the KISS principle anymore when it comes to equipment- less stuff is better!. But that's just me. Your ears may be, and probably are, attuned to different likes. I happen to think Wayne Garcia was right in his assessment- but the 30 day in-home trial is really the way to go- and I think worth your time! Best wishes....