Will,

The problem is that the digital multi-channel connections that exist today are all proprietary. That means that for Outlaw to use it, they'd have to pay for the use of the scheme, which means that they'd have to pass the cost onto the consumer.

Ideally, someday these paranoid media twits will ease up a bit and agree on an open standard for multi-channel communication. That would make everybody (except those who shelled out for the proprietary connections, I guess) a lot happier.

Jeff

The 1394 audio specifications were completed last year. Audio and Music Data Transmission Protocol version 2.1 is dated May 24, 2002. The 5C/DTCP compliance rules for 1394 audio was completed June 10, 2002. There is currently a Pioneer receiver and DVD player that handles DVD-A and SACD, that uses this standard digital interface. A Sony receiver and player using this standard digital interface is expected in a few months (it's from Sony so it supports SACD but probably not DVD-A however) and, even Denon recently announced products that use the standard interface (even though Denon previously used it's own proprietary digital interface).

So yes, there is a standard for DVD-A and different brands are following it to promote interoperability between the brands.

See the following thread for more up-to-date info: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...0&pagenumber=10

Best,

Will

Hmmm. I wonder what the hold up is, then. Did all the major manufacturers sign up to use that format?

Jeff

chulonga,
Yes, before I decided to go with Lexicon I looked at the other options out there but in my opinion Lexicon was the only true upgrade choice. As others have very elegantly stated, Lexicon products are, in my estimation, the absolute best with their proprietary matrix modes and their tweakability. An additional factor which finally sealed it for me was the commitment to upgradability that Lexicon makes to its customers. What can't be upgraded by either software or firmware releases is handled by a very generous upgrade path. For example, when the MC-8 was introduced owners of the MC-1 were able to trade in their equipment at a substantial savings. It's still going to cost you some money, but it's much closer to the upgrading by throwing away the old pre/pro philosophy that some people prefer (once you've made the initial investment commitment.)

Quite frankly (and not to ruffle feathers here, but just my opinion) based on the performance and features of the 950 I consider moves to Anthems, and many others out there not really significant upgrades but lateral moves. The 950 sounds just about as good and the additional features that contribute to the higher prices of these other units still don't get you Logic 7, the same degree of tweakability and, of course, the upgrade path of the Lexicon family.

A bit cultish? Perhaps. But the more I use the MC-8 the more I'm convinced that it is a significant upgrade. I'm not the least bit (no pun intended) sorry I treated myself to this new pre/pro.

However, to bring this into focus, I fully realize that there are a lot of people who can't afford to get an MC-8 or similar so I wish to remind people of how good the 950 competes sonically for an amazing price. (That's what Gene Lockaby was saying in his beta test of the 950). About the only other thing I might suggest would be looking for some of these pre/pros on the used market once more of them appear. That's another budget path to consider.

I hope this answers your questions regarding my position on this. I was happy with the sound of my 950 and relatively pleased with its operation (as outlined elsewhere) and getting a Lexicon was the only thing that I really considered seriously.

------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 07/27/03)
Now includes my Runco CL-710 DLP FP
and Lexicon MC-8

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited September 01, 2003).]

Robert,

I gotta jump into this thread again given your last post.

I hear what you are saying - but I think you've assumed / oversimplified way too much when you state (and I paraphrase) that those who can't afford a Lexicon can be happily satisfied with a 950. Wow! So what about those of us who can afford a Lexicon (or two) but feel that the incremental benefit of doing so is practically negligible; that spending the additional dollars on a Lexicon would be a waste of good money?

I bought my 950 for its value (not price alone). I choose not to buy a Lexicon product because, in my opinion, it is of lower value - not because it is unaffordable. There's a serious difference - at least in my mind.

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood

JM,

I agree with you in essence, which is, of course, why I own a 950.

I am also quite sure that RAF was addressing those who might rather have the likes of a Lex, but truly don't have the disposable do-re-mi.

For myself, I'm waiting for the all-digital signal path to active speakers with digital amps, Blue-Ray and the Hi-Rez connections talked about above. So yes, it's not for the price diff, but rather the wait for the next wave of technology. Who knows, I might get tired of waiting, but for now, the 950 suits me just fine.

I'm sure RAF meant no condescension. He was only pointing out that there is a very affordable alternative (thank goodness).

RAF, thanks for your perspective.
Chulona



[This message has been edited by chulona (edited September 02, 2003).]

Jeff,
The problem with paraphrasing someone's words is that you can easily subvert the meaning of what a person was trying to say. And, since I was the author of the original statement, you surely did this in your message. At no time did I mean to sound condescending and, after re-reading my comments several times I don't think that this is a valid interpretation of my words. Others have obviously seen this too and correctly interpreted my intentions.

If you have been following my comments not only in this thread but in all my talking about the 950, right back to Day One when I was one of the first users of this unit, I've stressed over and over that in price : performance the 950 is extremely hard to beat. I've not changed my position on that one iota.

My latest response was to a question of why I chose to go with a Lexicon rather than a Parsound or an Anthem or something of that ilk and that's what I was addressing. There are certain things, in my opinion, that the Lexicon offers that none of the other units mentioned (and many others) don't. Therefore, to me choosing between the non-Lexicon units, the 950 keeps coming out on top. However, the few things that the MC-8 does better than the 950 is what convinced me to shell out the extra money for the Lexicon. For many others, the incremental improvement is not worth the big jump in cost. Like they say, different strokes for different folks.

What it comes down to is this. The Lexicon costs a lot more than the Outlaw. Some people who would love to have a Lexicon can't see spending the money, either for economic reasons or for not thinking that the extra investment is worth the extra cost. What I did is certainly not what everyone else would do. I was just stating my preference here. At no time was I trying to talk down to anyone.

You state that you feel the difference between a Lexicon and a 950 is negligible. While I would agree that there is very little difference in most sonic modes (the Lexicon has some proprietatry modes that I enjoy but when comparing Apples to Apples the two units are very close) I disagree with your characterization for other features. To me, the tweakability and upgradability of the MC-8 is not "negligible" but significant. You, of course, are entitled to a different opinion.

And yes, I do realize that lots of people can afford a Lexicon and choose not to go that route for whatever reason. But I also realize that lots of people can't afford a Lexicon. bossobass read my words and my intentions correctly. You state that you "hear what I'm saying" but you clearly did not.

I meant no offense and I stand by my original statement.


------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 07/27/03)
Now includes my Runco CL-710 DLP FP
and Lexicon MC-8

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited September 02, 2003).]

Robert,

I took no offence. Nor did I say, or mean to imply, that your position was a condescending one, or that you meant to offend.

All I tried to say, admitedly not very well, is that there is a wide range of value judgements that people will apply to such a purchase, and that for me the value of a Lexicon product is just not there.

Lexicon makes great products. No disputing that at all. Outlaw however, makes products of much greater value - in my opinion.

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood

Jeff,
I agree with your statement. We are on the same page here. I've touted the value of Outlaw products for a long time here (and taken quite a bit of flak from some people for this!)

Where we have divergent opinions is whether or not it's sometimes worth it to spend extra money to get an improvement that is probably not as great as the additional cost. Not everything is linear and everyone is entitled to spend their money the way they see fit.

In the case of the Lexicon I chose to treat myself and I'm not sorry. And I can't defend my choice on a "bang for the buck" platform. The MC-8 offered me something that the 950 (and a lot of other units) didn't - and that's what I was talking about when responding to chulonga's inquiry.

If everyone purchased equipment based solely on price : performance then there probably wouldn't be any Lexicons or Krells or numerous other "boutique" labels. But that's another topic entirely.

------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 07/27/03)
Now includes my Runco CL-710 DLP FP
and Lexicon MC-8

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited September 03, 2003).]