Last Friday I replaced my Outlaw 950 pre/pro with a brand new Lexicon MC-8 unit in my home theater (a 61st birthday present to myself). I’ve mentioned this to a few people and the inevitable, “Why did you do this?” question has come up several times already. Therefore, to address these inquiries (especially in light of the fact that I was the infamous “950 Beta Tester #1)” here’s the story so far.

When I first received the Outlaw 950 for testing I was very pleased with the quality of its performance and still am to this day. It was my first serious venture into total separates, having previously added some outboard amplification to my DENON 5700 receiver, which opened up the sound considerably. There were some speed bumps and growing pains along the way as the 950 “matured” (some hiss issues which I never personally experienced, and a couple of coding issues that were resolved before final production or in subsequent hardware modifications) but this is not too unusual in a product as electronically complex as a surround processor. The biggest obstacle in all my testing was unplugging and plugging in a huge number of cables each time the product was updated to the next version.

But once stabilized, the 950 worked and sounded very good to me – especially when one considers that it is now available for under $800. I never got overly involved with some of what I consider non-issues (the color of the power button for example or the design of the Outlaw logo) and lived with the few things that I wished could be better. And what were a couple of my minor annoyances?

Probably the biggest annoyance was the delay in the time that it takes for the 950 to lock onto a digital signal – specifically from my Echostar DISH network receiver. Locking on to other digital source signals (like DVDs) was addressed in early software changes during the Beta testing and is sufficiently fast to be practically unnoticeable. However, something about the 950/Echostar digital connection was never really totally satisfying to me. True, you can “force” the 950 to use the analog signal and the delay disappears, but then you also lose any DD 5.1 soundtracks, especially on HDTV broadcasts, etc. I should also note that I was using TWO Echostar receivers, an HDTV Model 6000 and a PVR 501 so this problem occurred on two sources. What it basically came down to was this: whenever I would channel surf there would always be a several second delay before the sound locked in and that became very noticeable – especially in contrast with my upstairs system, which also uses a DISH receiver coupled to my old DENON 5700. The almost instantaneous lock onto a DISH signal upstairs was in sharp contrast to what was happening in my HT. In fact I found myself avoiding watching normal television (except for HDTV) in the HT because of the delay.

A second item that I had adapted to was the inability of the 950 to adjust the volume for different sources and retain these settings. Not all sources provide the same volume. For example, I usually use a volume setting of around –20dB on the 950 for watching DVDs (all volumes relative, of course, to initial settings on your amps, etc.) and a volume of about –40 for Echostar. Imagine what happens if you finish a DVD and then start watching TV! If you don’t quickly drop the volume ~20dB your ears (and your neighbors) are in for a sonic shock. Ironically, the lock-on delay of the 950 actually helped here since you had a several second “window of opportunity” to turn down the volume (some would probably call this a feature!). But I didn’t always win the race until, like Pavlov’s Dogs, the 950 rang my bells a few times.

Granted, these are things that one can live with and I have to say that once the 950 was locked in to a signal, with the volume adjusted to my liking, the sound it produced was very, very nice indeed. In fact, it’s still among the best sound I’ve heard in my theater, especially in the surround modes. That is, until I heard Lexicon’s Logic 7.

Now I’m not going to try to tell you that Logic 7 is vastly superior to the surround modes on the 950, but there are some subtle differences. Some have termed it a bit smoother transition from speaker to speaker during sound pans. The term “clarity” crops up in some descriptions. Others have suggested that the 950 almost seems to have a subset of the processing capabilities of the Lexicon. I’m sure all of this contributes to the delicate difference in the sound field. The quality, quantity (greater processing capability) and the design of the circuitry also plays a role. And a lot of this translates into dollars.

Logic 7 is something that has to be experienced to be understood. No words can substitute for actual listening. It is a sound technology that has developed over a long period of time. Of course, Lexicon’s advantage is that Dr. David Griesinger, the architect of Logic 7, has a head start of almost two decades on Outlaw and the others, and is intimately involved in the design and direction of the technology. There is a fascinating interview with Dr. Griesinger at

http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Lexicon/dg_qa1.html

which explains some of the philosophy of surround processing and also provides links to other relevant information.

Another Beta Tester for the Outlaw 950, Gene Lockaby, owned an MC-12 and when he made the statement that the 950 came very close in sonic ability to his Lexicon there were a lot of people who questioned him on this. Now that I have personally experienced a Lexicon in the exact environment (same connectors, components, etc.) as the 950 I know what Gene was talking about. There is a slight difference, to be sure, but I find it quite interesting how well the Outlaw 950 holds up when compared to the MC-8 in sonic quality.

Don’t get me wrong. If you gave me a choice between the Lexicon and the Outlaw I would choose the Lexicon every time. Aside from the ability to lock onto all signals quicker and to set individual volumes for different sources – two things that I found lacking on the 950, the MC-8 just has so much more flexibility. Much more control over inputs (you can configure the analog inputs as 8 pairs Stereo, or 5 pairs Stereo and one set of 5.1 analogs, or 2 pairs Stereo, and 2 sets of 5.1 analogs), direct access to the processor via RS-232 and software updates, slots for future modules as new technologies emerge, tremendous build quality, an upgrade and support structure that allows Lexicon owners to move up to new models when they are released – the list is almost endless. And with so much control I am finding the menus to be extremely intuitive and quite logical. Once I was pointed in the right direction by an excellent manual I was able to set out on my own and, so far, everything has fallen into place.

I chose to treat myself to the MC-8. But if budget is the primary consideration, then the Outlaw 950 walks very, very proud. While it never did set out to compete with a unit that lists for over 7 times its cost, the 950 does provide some very nice sound with a little less of the convenience and upgradeability. As an aside, I ran into a similar situation when purchasing my first front projector. I finally settled on a (then) $5,800 Sony VW10HT LCD unit. The flagship Sony projector – the G90 CRT – was also about 7 times the cost of my Sony and, while superior, it didn’t produce a picture 7 times better. Of course, I never would have been able to make the jump from a VW10HT to a G90 because, while the multiplier is about the same, my pockets are not that big! Luckily, a Runco CL-710 DLP projector landed on my doorstep (see my HT website for details) so I now have a new “crown jewel” for my home theater. And if the Runco is my video gem, then the MC-8 is the audio equivalent.

In my opinion the Outlaw 950 competes very well with other pre/pros in its general vicinity (under $2,000) and is still a watershed product for those wishing to get into separates. And knowing the Outlaws, I would suspect that they have plans in the works for a follow-up product to the 950. Those who followed all this from the beginning recall that Outlaw initially planned to produce two pre/pros – an “entry” model, which evolved into the 950, and a “deluxe” model, which fell by the wayside as the 950 went through some growing pains. Now that the 950 has settled in I would be very surprised if Outlaw doesn’t take aim at the pre/pro market that starts at $4,000 and up in the not-to-distant future.

In the meantime, I now know what all of those who kept mentioning two words to me were talking about – “Logic 7.” There’s still a lot for me to learn and I’m sure I’ll be tweaking the sound even more as I learn more. At this point I would estimate that I’m at the 90% comfort level with understanding the MC-8’s operation and 110% satisfied with my investment. So that averages out to 100% and is perfect in my book.

For now.

I agree with you on both issues,I have a Panasonic TU DST52 HDTV tuner and there is a
3 second (average) to lock onto the digital audio, It must be the the 950,also it clicks
when CD tracks are changed. This and the programable settings for each input must be addressed on the "next" 950 or an upgrade in the software.

Robert,

Thanks for sharing an interesting perspective / some observations on the 950.

I've had my 950 for a few months now and remain convinced that it is one of the best home theatre buys out there. I have no quibbles at all with its performance or feature set. (I new what I was buying before I did, so how could I subsequently lament that it is lacking something?)

A comparison of the 950 to a product that for 99%+ of the population is unattainable is interesting - but not really "news," unless the result was that the 950 won the comparison ("man bites dog"). However what I think you've written is not that "dog bites man" but rather that "dog and man bite each other - no clear winner declared." Because for every time someone throws "Logic 7" into the fight, the response is "$799"!

I've owned a Lexicon product with Logic 7 (a CP3+) before, and while I'm sure that Lexicon has evolved that technology many steps since, in my mind it was never a particularly strong draw. There might be a day when the feature set of a high-end Lexicon product would make it worth my while to go for it, but that's highly unlikely so long as Outlaw keeps turning out products like the 950.

Besides, while products like the Lexicon are "upgradeable" both in terms of hardware and software, my guess is that a future hardware upgrade alone for the Lexicon will cost more than a brand new 950-successor. I hate to say it, but at $799 the 950 borders on "disposable". If you tire of its terrific performance and features after three, or four, or five years, post it on ebay and move on! You'd be much less likely to do that with something that cost $2-4K now wouldn't you?

Regards.

Jeff Mackwood

I find it interesting that people who supposedly are after the closeset reproduction of a soundtrack to what the mixers and directors heard during the final mix of the film (isn't that what THX is all about?) are willing to chuck that out the window and process the signal through an aftermarket process like Logic 7. It does not make sense to me to pay big bucks for a preamp only to have it "change" the sound from what is on the DVD. I've heard Logic 7 myself and frankly, Dr. David Griesinger or not, find it or any after-the -fact processing distracting and sounding less desirable when played through a good system. Fans of Logic 7 may disagree with this but this is my view.



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 29, 2003).]

Duplicate post

[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 29, 2003).]

Congrats on the very nice upgrade, RAF. It sounds like a great step up. The fact that the improvements seem to focus mainly on additional features and flexibility goes a long way to reinforce your greatly-appreciated feedback during the 950's beta testing. And if you are going to step up from the 950 for additional flexibility, the MC-8 seems like a first-rate way to do it. Enjoy!

The signal acquisition delay can be a pain -- I finally tracked down a digital cable box that provides a digital audio output for all channels (Pace Micro DC-510), but when shifting between formats (not every channel, but when you went from a channel with a native digital signal to one with a PCM digital output generated by the box) the pause drove my wife nuts. We're leaving it in analog mode in general, but I do switch back to digital when it's just me.



Hmm.. That's a pretty good way of putting it, Jeff. Or perhaps, "apples and oranges both taste good?" Seriously, I appreciate RAF's comparison of the two -- there is obviously a great deal of disparity between the two units, but it is still interesting to hear.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

LOGIC7 wasn't introduced till the DC-1. NONE of the CP series processors (including the CP-3+) had LOGIC7. In fact, prior to the release of the DC-1, Lexicon's ambience extraction modes were limited to only 5 channels, not 7 (they still used 7 speakers, but the side speakers duplicated the signal of either the Front L&R or the Rear L&R - user's choice). L7 was different from the ambience extraction modes on the CP series because it actually extracted 7 distinct channels of content, as opposed to 5.

LOGIC7 has gone through many versions over the years (with some newer versions sounding worse than the ones they replaced). But it's come a long, long way since the DC-1; and it continues to evolve. Even the version Robert is listening to on his MC-8 is a significant improvement from the L7 that was on Lexicon's flagship model MC-12 when it was first released.

You can't really judge the surround processing available on the MC-8 by listening to the older DC/MC models, let alone go by the CP series processors. That's like responding to someone praising PL II on the 950 by saying your that the Pro Logic mode on your old receiver left you feeling it wasn't a "particularly strong draw". Fact remains that LOGIC7 is the number one reason for buying Lexicon processors.

Best,
Sanjay

Can't disagree with personal preference. However, I'm curious which type of LOGIC7 you listened to; though they may share the same name, the matrix decoder used on 2-channel material is different from the post-processing applied to 5.1/6.1 channel sources. In either case, what did you find "distracting" and/or "less desireable" about the sound?

Best,
Sanjay

I listened to it at a studio DVD authoring facility on at least 3 occasions, and I'm sure they were the latest versions of the system (Lexicon is widely used in professional facilities).

Processing that varies the soundstaging I spot instantly, and this is distracting to me. Keep im mind that I work on movie dubbing stages and hear soundtracks in their original master form, so I pick up on differences. Personally, I think in a properly set-up system, what the engineers do in the vast majority of instances sounds worse when "second-guessed" by electronic means. Especially in a system set up for 7.1 (even with the back surrounds mirroring the sides), I find the envelopment and integration with the mains very satisfactory, certainly better than Logic 7 or any other post-processing. Personally I think users should concentrate more on their room acoustics and setup than "band-aid" processing that supposedly makes thing "better than original".




[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited July 29, 2003).]

Thanks for the comments. As usual, a number of "spirited" debates spin off.

A few comments of my own.

Yes, as I mentioned, I still consider the 950 to be a remarkable product for its price point - even more so now that it lists for less than $800. I stand by my statement that I would not have upgraded to anything else out there in the under $2000 category since I couldn't have really justified this. However, the MC-8 is a different story entirely for the reasons I've already outlined.

(Interesting sidelight: I got a personal message from one of the Outlaws once he became aware of my upgrade. His exact words were, "Robert, I would have been crestfallen if you told me that you had switched over to a Rotel. But since you are moving on to an MC-8 I can't really fault you for that.")

I'm still a big fan of the 950 and it will still serve me well upstairs (no delay problem since I use the analog DISH inputs there).

When Gene Lockaby (the 950 Beta Tester with a Lexicon MC-12) stated that the 950 competed favorably with the MC-12 sonically a lot of eyes (ears?) were opened in disbelief. He never did say it sounded better, merely that the sound was very, very close. And factoring in the price differential, the 950 became a "Best Buy." Now that I've lived with my MC-8 a bit I know exactly what Gene was talking about and I echo his statements. Nobody should consider my move to a Lexicon as a knock on the 950. In fact, it shows how good the 950 is in most areas. There is absolutely no substitute for comparing two pieces of equipment in the same room and with the same components, wires, speakers, etc. and I was able to do this in a manner of speaking. (I didn't do a strict A/B test since that would have involved an unfathomable number of connections, etc.) But living with the 950 for longer than most (over a year and a half) I feel confident in my ability even at my advanced age(g) to be able to compare what I'm now hearing on my MC-8 with what I heard on my 950. Lots of familiar sights and sounds.

The Logic 7 thing is relatively new to me and I like it. A lot. It seems to smooth everything out in sound pans and I find myself choosing the L7 option in just about every case (analog bypass, of course, for 5.1 and 2 channel analog sources like DVD-A and SACD would be an exception). It's there, it sounds great, and it's configurable. And for those who wish to use the "final mix on the film" the MC-8 allows you to chose the mode of your choice. You aren't limited to Logic 7. Everything is there, including THX Ultra, Neo-6, ES, EX, you name it, the MC-8 has it. You can even turn all the processing off and customize the sound to anything you want to dial in. And the biggest improvement is that I'm not limited to what's currently in the software. Lexicon has a history of adding new sound modes as they are developed. I already have an RS-232 null modem cable ready for any upgrades. (Let me make a prediction here: The next Outlaw Pre/Pro - and you know there will be one, just a couple of years later than they originally said - will offer SW upgradability and other goodies. But that's in the future, not now.) The bottom line here is that Logic 7 comes with Lexicon products, but nobody is forced to use it. There is a full menu of other options.

Nobody who has chosen a 950 should have any reason to second-guess their decision. It's a fine product and contains many of the features (but not all) of the more expensive products. And, as one of you pointed out, at a $799 price point it can almost be considered disposable for future enhancements.

On the other hand, while the upgradability of the MC-8 is a nice feature in itself, another characteristic of the Lexicon experience is that they have traditionally offered a very generous upgrade path toward new technology (I believe there was an inexpensive way to move from an MC-1 to an MC-8) so this relieves the sting of the original purchase price. Of course, Outlaw's direct marketing approach (avoiding dealer networks) doesn't allow the same degree of flexibility as Lexicon. If this were the case, you wouldn't be able to buy a 950 for $799.

------------------
RAF

My HT (latest update 07/27/03) Now includes Runco CL-710 DLP FP and Lexicon MC-8

[This message has been edited by Robert A Fowkes (edited July 29, 2003).]