Just got 2 DAD discs that ouput 96khz/24bit PCM. No matter what DD/DTS/CRSR/Stereo button I push on the remote, all I get is OSD saying 96Khz PCM. I wanted 5 ch. stereo thru the onboard DSP. Any ideas. No the first time I've had trouble getting a source to come out in 5 Stereo.

I believe that with a 24/96 source, you cannot engage any DSP on the 950. It doesn't have the processing power. If you use an analog connection, that would work, but it defeats the whole purpose of a 24/96 source as the 950 would convert it to 24/48 internally.

Two things... or maybe three...

1) If you use the DVD Audio player's internal D/A, you can send a high resolution analog signal to the 950 (in Bypass or 6 Channel Bypass mode) you will get all the 24/96 signal information in 2 or 6 channel.

2) If you use a digital (coax or optical) input to the 950, you CAN use 950's processing modes, but it depends on the type of PCM.

A typical DVD Audio disk has an output of 88.2kHz or 96kHz in a format called PPCM or "Packed" Pulse Code Modulation. The 950 will convert the PPCM signal to a 44.1kHz or 48kHz PCM digital signal, and then perform DSP on that signal.

If the player's digital output is 88.2kHz or 96kHz PCM (not PPCM), the 950 will NOT convert the signal to a 44.1kHz or 48kHz PCM digital signal, and no DSP is available. It remains a high resolution PCM signal however. I have verified this in two channel (Stereo) mode only. Also, the crossover setting still works in this high resolution stereo mode.

I would guess that a 6 channel 96kHz PCM signal would be passed through each channel output of the 950 in the same way, although my DVD player does not output high resolution PCM in more than Stereo, so I don't know.

I use a Panasonic RP91 for CD and DVD Audio playback. This unit performs upsampling (converts a 44.1mHz/16bit signal from a Compact Disk to high resolution 88.2mHz/24bit signal). The output is a PCM (not PPCM) signal, and therefore not compatible with the 950 DSP modes. The 950 recognizes this as a 88.2 PCM signal, which can use Stereo mode only.

Your DVD Audio player may not be able to format the 96kHz signal into a compatible PPCM signal for the Outlaw 950 to process. Perhaps there is a setting in your player that needs to be adjusted... probably worth a call to the manufacurer.

Please let me know if this is of any help. Good Luck!

Allan

and...
3) Just checking the obvious... You must first select the AUD button on the remote before you can select any of the DSP modes, Stereo, Stereo 5, or Bypass modes. If you last pressed the DVD selector button on the remote you CAN NOT select any sound processing modes, not even Bypass.

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited July 22, 2003).]

The 88.2kHz and 96kHz stereo tracks on typical DVD-Audio discs are not packed. Meridian Lossless Packing is only applied to the high resolution multi-channel tracks. The reason for the packing is to allow 5.1 channels of hi-res data to fit into DVD's maximum throughput rate of 9MB/sec; this is unnecessary for the stereo tracks as the bandwidth can easily accomodate 2 channels of 96/24 data. The digital outputs on your RP-91 or any other DVD player can handle 2 channels of 96/24 data; this is within the S/PDIF spec. Even my five years old Pioneer DV-525 player outputs a clean 96/24 signal via the digital outs, with no downsampling. More channels of hi-res audio, even when packed, won't fit through the digital outs of standard players. So your RP-91 is not alone when it comes to this limitation.

Best,
Sanjay

Thanks Sanjay...
Please ponder this...

The RP91 (DVD Audio Player) evidently performs a packing operation to the DVD Audio 96/24 signal, because it says so in the player's output display (PPCM). All the DSP modes of the Outlaw 950 are available to the digital output signal from the player, when it is in PPCM format. The 950 downsamples the signal to half the high resolution rate (44.1 or 46kHz) and does it's thing.

When the player puts out an "unpacked" high resolution PCM format signal, the Outlaw 950 CANNOT perform DSP, even if it is only a two channel signal. Apparently it is not able to downsample a high resolution PCM signal. Or is it something else I am missing?

This is my theory, based on experience, but little else. I do not have detailed knowlege of how the 950 deals with PPCM and PCM format signals.

Also Best,
Allan

There is some confusion here.

A DVD-A disc cannot output 24/96 digitally. This is prohibited by the copyright nazis. You get analog, or some downconverted digital signal, typically 24/48.

However, there are Digital Audio Discs, basically a DVD-V with a straight 24/96 signal that *is* passed digitally. There are not many of these out there. Chesky is one label that has them. This is "DAD". DVD-A is different.

Some early DVD-V players cannot output a 24/96 signal. Plus, even for some that do, you have to engage it in the internal menu system.

Thank you KCB.
This is finally making sense. A DVD-A player must convert the high resolution digital signal to analog internally before output.

It is obvious (I think) that the DVD player must be downsampling the digital signal, not the Outlaw 950 as I had surmized. This would satisfy the copyright Nazis, and provide a PCM signal (44.1 or 48kHz) which can be handled by the 950 DSP modes.

I guess this means that the 950 CANNOT process high resolution digital signals in anything other than Stereo. This is consistent with both my, and other's observations. I would guess the nazis may have a hand in this too. Perhaps someone knows...

And for the record... the RP91 "Owners Manual," and the RP91's OSD really make for a lot of PPCM confusion. The CIA and NSA made me say all that other stuff. Yeah... thats the ticket. Yellow Cake.

Thanks again...


[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited July 23, 2003).]

Downsample of previous post

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited July 23, 2003).]

Allan, Players' "output display"? Are you sure that the display is not telling you what's on the disc; i.e., LPCM vs PPCM? If your player is doing packing, then what compression scheme is it using? For example: is it applying MLP on the fly, in real time? I have a feeling that your player may instead be downsampling the signal rather than packing it. (But that's just a guess on my part.)

Best,
Sanjay

You are correct.
And so was KCB.

I checked with Panasonic, and as I wrote in my last post, the player (RP91) downsamples the digital signal before output (coax or optical).

The display on the player shows the disk format, not output. The display calls high resolution signal from DVD-A disks a PPCM signal. This may or may not be correct, but that's what it says. It may convert it internally to do its own processing, but I just don't know. And neither did the Panasonic tech I spoke to...

Thanks for you comments.

Allan