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#47064 - 06/23/03 03:52 PM Re: No sound after power outage
HTLearner Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 19
All, an update:

I just tried connecting my old Denon receiver as the amp, using my 950 as the pre-amp. Got sound! So it seems my 755 is fried and 950 is probably OK.

I spoke with Scott at Outlaw today and they are setting up a return authorization for the amp.

Lena, interesting that you say that power surges can cause degradation of the Panamax-- so there's no way of knowing if it is working or not? Seems like there should be a way to determine the status of the Panamax without sending it in. So what do I do with my Panamax?

Power outages are rare in my neighborhood. But all it takes is one I guess. What would you suggest for a surge protector, without having to cash in my 401k?

I still think it's just as likely the surge protector works fine and the amp had an existing problem.

Also every other electronic component in my house works fine, including all of the other components plugged into the Panamax.

-HTLearner

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#47065 - 06/23/03 05:54 PM Re: No sound after power outage
Smart Little Lena Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 1019
Loc: Dallas
Could have been a [weakness] in the amp to start with but very telling that both your instances were after power outages. With that in mind and having had anything [like] an issue once. I’d be inclined (just me) to add more protection into the chain. I really don’t want to find out the hard way what will and will/not get through the wiring and am cognistant of the fact that certain particular pieces of electronics can be more suspectable than others.

Many (surge/storm) horror stories in my area. I started extensive research into the whole issue of electronics/wiring protection. Over the years the only electronics I had personally lost were a microwave and one LCD thermostat. (but I really started to think on the topic after dragging home more brandnew AV gear than I ever have all in one revamp!

During research (all theoretical mind you) I discovered that MOV based surge protection degrades. Hit after hit brown out after brown out, eventually its performance will not equal its original specs. I have seen arguments that it degrades the most after the first couple (hits) stabilizing after that point with extremely incremental small degradation noted when bench tested after its initial loss of protection level. I’ve also seen the argument that its very dramatic to watch MOV based surge protection melt down and catch fire at its failure point. I don’t’ know a single person this has occurred to personally.
But reading what I did find, - became interested in [Series Mode] surge protection. I’ve forgotten ˝ what I learned but unlike MOV based it sends the surge through a different path to dissipate excess current. And can do it time after time {with no degradation} its joules protection rating is at the same level your whole house wiring will melt at anyway before a Series Mode will fail. In other words if a series mode fries you had a large enough direct hit to lose the whole house…nothing will protect you.

If all the above is true, Your panamax by having some hits has degraded to a degree (but no MOV based have gauges onboard to document the degree). . The only time the Panamax will bother your with an alert is at catastrophic failure of the entire unit.
Your cheapest way to deal with it, is get an electrician (if you own your own home) to put a whole house surge protector on your main panel.

My neighborhood is OLD, and very prone to some bizarre power ups/power downs. I live in a state with 35K plus towering storm systems. Eventually (when I get to it) I’ll own ever-conceivable protective device possible from my main panel forward.

Right now I too am running a Panamax, it was quick and covered my coaxial cable for the satellite also (something many consumers forget to protect) I will eventually add to the Panamax. My original idea was to daisy chain possible 2 additional “Brickwall” surge protectors either one at the wall before the panamax, or two after the panamax one for the amp/one for everything else in my AV. I need to research the effects of all these ‘filters’ before I decide the final config. I might skip all that and keep looking for series based main panel protection.. Last time (I had time to look) all the units I found for this duty were whole panel MOV based devices.

Very possible it was just a blowout waiting to happen on your amp. But since it appears it got through or was set off by power outs. It would worry me, not to increase my level of protection, as in all our electronic purchases some items are just more sensitive than others to power fluctuations.

(I need to send this to Gonk, Gonk if he had anything to say on any topic would say it all concisely in two sentences). Sorry no time for edits.!

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#47066 - 06/24/03 05:19 PM Re: No sound after power outage
HTLearner Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 05/06/02
Posts: 19
Lena,

Sounds like you've done a lot of research on surge protectors. I was pretty interested in the Richard Gray's Power Company products (http://www.audiolinesource.com/index2.html), but got scared away by the price...

It looks like a different design than MOV. They do both surge supression and power level stabilization.

-HTLearner

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#47067 - 06/24/03 06:29 PM Re: No sound after power outage
DaleB Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 146
Loc: Clovis, CA,US
Remember the key to the Panamax is removing applied voltage in case of major line fluctuations (high & low), not just spike suppression. I believe the limits are 97 and 137 volts.
This is where conventional suppression does no good. Think of line spikes as major noise and MOVs as supression for 'that' noise.

Panamax also rates their spike protection circuitry as having something close to infinite life for all pratical purposes, barring direct lightning hits, etc.

It's quite ingenious in it's function, a nice design for a fair price. And again, I think a minimum for any home theater system.

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#47068 - 06/24/03 07:44 PM Re: No sound after power outage
Smart Little Lena Offline
Desperado

Registered: 01/09/02
Posts: 1019
Loc: Dallas
Panamax also rates their spike protection circuitry as having something close to infinite life for all pratical purposes, barring direct lightning hits

I never could find the stats explained ? how Panamax is diffrent just comments to the effect that theirs was a more 'hybrid' (for lack of better word) implementation of MOV and feasiblly might be more coverage than other choices. Been delighted with mine. It seems to handle the on/off wackiness of my neighberhood power interuptions very well.
I still hope to add more layers of defense in future, you know best laid plans of mice and men.

Really after doing the research I have done its crazy I have not added minimilist main panel protection. Its so cheap compared to even the loss a one microwave!

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#47069 - 06/24/03 08:45 PM Re: No sound after power outage
Kevin C Brown Offline
Desperado

Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 1054
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
The new RGPCs now have MOVs. The inductor itself did not provide good enough surge supression.

Best surge suppression I've come across:

www.brickwall.com
_________________________
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... New and Improved !!


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