All,

The following has happened to my 950 twice-- I'd sure appreciate your advice:

After a neighborhood power failure, the 950 powers on but will not play sound through any of the channels except the LFE. The first time it happened I just waited and the 950 started working normally again after a day. This time it is still not producing sound after last night's power failure.

Everything is plugged into a line conditioner/surge protector and all other components work fine. The 950 powers on and the LCD display is normal, bass comes through the subwoofer but none of the other channels have sound. I tried unplugging everything and plugging back in. No dice. I have the 950 plugged into the 755 amp. The amp seems to power on OK as well.

I am sure it was a power failure since my PC and all the lights went off last night. Next step is to do a hard reset on the 950. I am hoping to avoid that since I will lose all the settings. And I don't know if that will help either. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

-HTLearner

Aside from a hard reset, I would get a power strip with a good surge protection device. Sometimes when the power comes back on, there is an overvoltage spike. Not good.

What kind of line Conditioner/surge protector were you using? I want to make sure I'm not.

I'm using what I thought was a pretty decent surge protector/line conditioner-- a Panamax 5100. Note that all other components plugged into the Panamax work just fine. I am now wondering if the problem is in the 755 amp rather than the 950. I guess I could try plugging my 950 into my old Denon receiver and seeing if I get any sound.

I have the Panamax 5300 and it has saved by system once already with a fuse blowing in one speaker. The Panamax shut everything down right away. Did you try the reset on the 950? It shouldn't take to much time to get back they way you had it.

When you say the 950 is "plugged" into the 755 amp, you mean with cables not cords, right? I am not familiar with the 755, but if it has an AC out I would not use it and go to the Panamax instead. Use the DC trigger to turn components on together.

If the Panamax did fail to protect your system, maybe the Panamax warranty will cover the 950.



------------------
MeanGene's Home

Do let us know what happens, Sometimes logic can get scrambled in devices, but this typically cured with a power reset.
If it is the amp, it could be an internal fuse. Not having such an amp I do not know if it has one.

Both components should have internal fusing.


[This message has been edited by DaleB (edited June 22, 2003).]

All,

I will definitely keep you posted on how Outlaw handles this. By 'plugged in' I meant the 950 pre-out analog cables into the 755 inputs. I didn't mean power. Both the 950 and 755 power cables were plugged into my Panamax.

I went ahead and did a couple hard resets of the 950, to no avail. But, upon further testing it appears the problem may be the 755 rather than the 950. I tried connecting two older receivers to the 755 using the receivers' pre-outs, and neither would produce sound through the 755.

Assuming I connected everything correctly and didn't make a dumb user mistake, it would appear the 755 is not functioning properly at this point and therefore whether the 950 works or not is undetermined...

At this point there is no proof that the 755 or 950 were damaged from a power outage that the Panamax failed to protect from. It could be that, or it could be a coincidental failure of the 755 amp (perhaps a bad unit?).

I've written Outlaw and I'll keep you posted. Man I miss my music already.

-HTLearner

Does the 755 have a user-replaceable fuse somewhere or a circuit breaker?

Soundhound, looking for a fuse or circuit breaker switch was my thought as well. No dice.

The manual for the 755 states "Your Outlaw Audio Amplifier uses advanced protection circuitry that does not require fuses. In the event that the amplifier senses a shorted speaker wire, DC voltage on any input connection or thermal overload creates a condition that could potentially cause damage to the unit or to your speakers, it will automatically shut down."

Since the 755 was plugged into my Panamax surge protector, and the amp/950 combo quit working after a power outage (not necessarily a power surge), I am starting to think the amp had a problem unrelated to the power outage.

Hopefully Outlaw will get back to me tomorrow.

-HTLearner

Since the 755 was plugged into my Panamax surge protector, and the amp/950 combo quit working after a power outage (not necessarily a power surge), I am starting to think the amp had a problem unrelated to the power outage.


Not necessarily. As SH (I think) pointed out earlier the surge could have come into the system on restart of your local. It could have been compounded by the earlier incident you had. (you mention when things slowly came back on line ...next day)

Remember MOV technology (in your panamax) is degradable unlike series mode, which is theoretically not degradable, touted at frying on a direct hit at the same level your in-wall wire will melt at.

And the Panamax will not show a degradation level, just either ON or total failure when it gets to that point.
If you have these kinds of ‘surges’ in your neighborhood I’d look into some heavier protection.

Weird but true story. (ANOTHER DAY in my neighborhood) Last month I was getting ready for trip and on my PC till 1:30am trying to finish business so that I could pack for my 5 am departure. Storm comes, - power goes out. I’m cussing the computer, himself is trying to calm me…”It will back on in 15” Well an hour later, he’s holding a flashlight while I go through my closet to pack! All my packing done by flashlight/candlelite very disorienting....didn't know what I'd end up wearing on this bikini/formal wear combo trip. We leave at 5am…still no power ….poor housesitter.

When we get back in town turns out in my Mom’s neighborhood, about 3-5 miles as crow flies. The storm hit even harder, a tree came up by the rootball and bashed a Powerline. House next door to this powerline catches fire (not due to tree) just power surge/spark. Garage w new Lexus in it is destroyed. Fire Dept tear out side of garage etc. These HO’s are out of town during the occurrence so no-one notices fire for a while. ….Whole neighborhood lost power when tree fell.

Lexus house catches on fire when power is lost. Another neighbor gets nervous (everything APPEARs fine at her home but?) so early AM next morning, She calls her electrician to check out her house. Electrician comes over in PM starts checking her house over (power is still out in whole neighborhood). Finds at some point during all this that her whole house surge protector on her main panel has fried. While he’s STANDING in her house …the power comes back on…..which sets off a spark in some wiring in the Master Bedroom, and her house starts burning. Her and the electrician call 911.

By the way I am blessed I have not (gotten too) getting my mom a panamax (or something) for her new display/DVD player I purchased for her…have not had time…..she did not lose any of her electronics during all this mess.

Point of whole story….Power-off/Power-on do weird things. AND I’ think I’m going to look into a lighting rod

All, an update:

I just tried connecting my old Denon receiver as the amp, using my 950 as the pre-amp. Got sound! So it seems my 755 is fried and 950 is probably OK.

I spoke with Scott at Outlaw today and they are setting up a return authorization for the amp.

Lena, interesting that you say that power surges can cause degradation of the Panamax-- so there's no way of knowing if it is working or not? Seems like there should be a way to determine the status of the Panamax without sending it in. So what do I do with my Panamax?

Power outages are rare in my neighborhood. But all it takes is one I guess. What would you suggest for a surge protector, without having to cash in my 401k?

I still think it's just as likely the surge protector works fine and the amp had an existing problem.

Also every other electronic component in my house works fine, including all of the other components plugged into the Panamax.

-HTLearner

Could have been a [weakness] in the amp to start with but very telling that both your instances were after power outages. With that in mind and having had anything [like] an issue once. I’d be inclined (just me) to add more protection into the chain. I really don’t want to find out the hard way what will and will/not get through the wiring and am cognistant of the fact that certain particular pieces of electronics can be more suspectable than others.

Many (surge/storm) horror stories in my area. I started extensive research into the whole issue of electronics/wiring protection. Over the years the only electronics I had personally lost were a microwave and one LCD thermostat. (but I really started to think on the topic after dragging home more brandnew AV gear than I ever have all in one revamp!

During research (all theoretical mind you) I discovered that MOV based surge protection degrades. Hit after hit brown out after brown out, eventually its performance will not equal its original specs. I have seen arguments that it degrades the most after the first couple (hits) stabilizing after that point with extremely incremental small degradation noted when bench tested after its initial loss of protection level. I’ve also seen the argument that its very dramatic to watch MOV based surge protection melt down and catch fire at its failure point. I don’t’ know a single person this has occurred to personally.
But reading what I did find, - became interested in [Series Mode] surge protection. I’ve forgotten ½ what I learned but unlike MOV based it sends the surge through a different path to dissipate excess current. And can do it time after time {with no degradation} its joules protection rating is at the same level your whole house wiring will melt at anyway before a Series Mode will fail. In other words if a series mode fries you had a large enough direct hit to lose the whole house…nothing will protect you.

If all the above is true, Your panamax by having some hits has degraded to a degree (but no MOV based have gauges onboard to document the degree). . The only time the Panamax will bother your with an alert is at catastrophic failure of the entire unit.
Your cheapest way to deal with it, is get an electrician (if you own your own home) to put a whole house surge protector on your main panel.

My neighborhood is OLD, and very prone to some bizarre power ups/power downs. I live in a state with 35K plus towering storm systems. Eventually (when I get to it) I’ll own ever-conceivable protective device possible from my main panel forward.

Right now I too am running a Panamax, it was quick and covered my coaxial cable for the satellite also (something many consumers forget to protect) I will eventually add to the Panamax. My original idea was to daisy chain possible 2 additional “Brickwall” surge protectors either one at the wall before the panamax, or two after the panamax one for the amp/one for everything else in my AV. I need to research the effects of all these ‘filters’ before I decide the final config. I might skip all that and keep looking for series based main panel protection.. Last time (I had time to look) all the units I found for this duty were whole panel MOV based devices.

Very possible it was just a blowout waiting to happen on your amp. But since it appears it got through or was set off by power outs. It would worry me, not to increase my level of protection, as in all our electronic purchases some items are just more sensitive than others to power fluctuations.

(I need to send this to Gonk, Gonk if he had anything to say on any topic would say it all concisely in two sentences). Sorry no time for edits.!

Lena,

Sounds like you've done a lot of research on surge protectors. I was pretty interested in the Richard Gray's Power Company products (http://www.audiolinesource.com/index2.html), but got scared away by the price...

It looks like a different design than MOV. They do both surge supression and power level stabilization.

-HTLearner

Remember the key to the Panamax is removing applied voltage in case of major line fluctuations (high & low), not just spike suppression. I believe the limits are 97 and 137 volts.
This is where conventional suppression does no good. Think of line spikes as major noise and MOVs as supression for 'that' noise.

Panamax also rates their spike protection circuitry as having something close to infinite life for all pratical purposes, barring direct lightning hits, etc.

It's quite ingenious in it's function, a nice design for a fair price. And again, I think a minimum for any home theater system.

Panamax also rates their spike protection circuitry as having something close to infinite life for all pratical purposes, barring direct lightning hits

I never could find the stats explained ? how Panamax is diffrent just comments to the effect that theirs was a more 'hybrid' (for lack of better word) implementation of MOV and feasiblly might be more coverage than other choices. Been delighted with mine. It seems to handle the on/off wackiness of my neighberhood power interuptions very well.
I still hope to add more layers of defense in future, you know best laid plans of mice and men.

Really after doing the research I have done its crazy I have not added minimilist main panel protection. Its so cheap compared to even the loss a one microwave!

The new RGPCs now have MOVs. The inductor itself did not provide good enough surge supression.

Best surge suppression I've come across:

www.brickwall.com