Hello All,
It's good to be back (?). Once again I've read an incredibly exausting thread. And once again I've heard great things and some crap. Crap is relative and logic is not. And then again, crap can be logic relative to one's understanding. Lest I wax philosophic, I will proceed. Soundhound, Miss Lena, Sanjay, and others, well done. Yes, I have my two, or three, cents to include, but you've already done it with great eloquence.
For some people, the only way to be taught is to be shown. Let them hear with their own ears, and let them be the judge. With a thirty-day guarantee, nobody loses.
The choice is theirs.
As Always,
Mix
P.S. Anybody got the number to Intel?
The latest processor just came out.

Hello All,
It's good to be back (?). Once again I've read an incredibly exausting thread. And once again I've heard great things and some crap. Crap is relative and logic is not. And then again, crap can be logic relative to one's understanding. Lest I wax philosophic, I will proceed. Soundhound, Miss Lena, Sanjay, and others, well done. Yes, I have my two, or three, cents to include, but you've already done it with great eloquence.
For some people, the only way to be taught is to be shown. Let them hear with their own ears, and let them be the judge. With a thirty-day guarantee, nobody loses.
The choice is theirs.
As Always,
Mix
P.S. Anybody got the number to Intel?
The latest processor just came out.

Outlaw has always been the Kmart of the separates world
MIKE, you cracked me up over that analogy!

TALK TO THE HAND.
(that means STOP, I strongly disagree)

If you were a girl (in Dallas) you would get this one (but I’ll try to translate for you!)

When I go to Loehmann’s I can pay $128.00 for a shirt. (very well made and special)
I can go to Neiman Marcus and pay $325.00 for that same shirt.

But what I can NEVER NEVER DO…is find that shirt at K-Mart (or anything the caliber of Outlaw)!!!.


Mix. HI! Intel Cust S. toll-free at 877.649.5817. Hey Mix, are you up on laptops? If so can we start an off-topic in Outlaw to Outlaw?

Little Lena you're not so smart because you didn't get the essence of my post; so I'll translate for ya :-) Outlaw delivers a decent product aimed at the bargain shoppers of the Home Theatre World. In my opinion the 950 is a good but not great Proc.
But for the money... it delivers. No debate there. Just as Kmart, Walmart, et al provide basic no frills
products for their specific customers. Outlaw is a good bottom of the line product. Why are all Outlaw owners so defensive?...maybe having second thoughts?

Mike

Actually, Mike, I think Smart Little Lena did get the essence of your post but disagreed with you, hence the response:



She also offered an excellent analogy explaining why she disagrees, which I will not waste bandwidth trying to improve on.

Oh, and as for the "second thoughts" -- heh-heh, not me. I'll be hanging on to my 950 and 750 for a long time to come...

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

As was said, there is nothing in K Mart of this standard.
Maybe buying the same Acura part for cheaper at a Honda dealer would be a better analogy.

Little Lena you're not so smart
Truer words were never spoken.

you didn't get the essence of my post
crystal

{excellent} product aimed at the bargain (and audiophile) shoppers of the Home Theatre World
edited to reflect personal opinion.

In my opinion the 950 is a good but not great Proc
Disagree with your opinion but only due to the fact that I have my own opinion.

Walmart, et al provide basic no frills products for their specific customers
When the 950 launched it had what other processors DID NOT have. (now admittedly this step is easy enough in the broadest terms due to the fact that a “latest” model anything normally carries the newest abilities per its genra which is not to be confused with the quality of the implementation). Two yrs out the 950 is a heavy contender in the most current pack.

Outlaw is a good bottom of the line product.
I can’t even count the number of products I would rate behind the 950 in the Que.

maybe having second thoughts?
Yes. Matter of fact: During my second thoughts purchased a second 950.

Mike, messing with you don’t want to be confrontational. Just disagree with your opinion. I should have used a automotive analogy (I will remember my location next time) Something ‘men’ can relate a little easier to.
The wealthiest woman I knew (growing up) shopped at K-Mart and interspersed purchases from that location with her higher-end from boutiques. Everyone naturally assumed (she was rich wasn’t she!) she paid a fortune for everything she and her daughters wore.

Where the clothes analogy is still very appropriate (for my tastes )is the fact that she knew how to discriminate between junk with a designer label and what was quality regardless of class. And she knew when the weight of the cotton and loom weave on a simple T, was higher thread count (and better quality) than a lessor quality “designer” version. She also knew when the $4 dollar T (Vs the premium $6 dollar T line at K-Mart) would shrivel up, - never to be the same size nor wrinkle free after its first laundering. She shopped judiciously, but she (or I) could never get the 1000 hand-sewn crystal embroidered evening gown with 100 % natural silk lining at K-Mart. I see a difference between having money to shop anywhere and shopping only by name (or popular trends) and guarding that pocket book by shopping for quality without prejudice towards what or whom provides it. Thus my choice of comparison.

I think (just my life now!) that Outlaw is more a company for those who have time for research, torridal transformers, quality of crossovers, filters, resisters and chips Vs faceplates and feature set (stated very clearly in the broadest terms right on the box (or website) for those in a hurry)

How do you like HDTV (assume you would not live without it since you add it to your moniker).
I find it very gratifying!

Some well made points, but the fact is the 950 was a flawed product from the get go. It was released without adequate beta testing. Hence the hiss problem and LFE fiasco. It also has what I consider flimsy construction. The on off button is almost Fisher/Price quality. The in/out jacks on the back are not solid, they are loose compared to other Pre/pros. The finish is cheap. The noise floor is only adequate especially on SACD/DVD audio. The tuner quality is laughable. But hey ya get what cha pay for. And I ain't complainin just pointing out the facts! Heck my 950 had to be returned because it froze up the first time I tried to use it. But their customer service is good. So all in all for $799 it's a good deal it just ain't great.

;-)

Mike

adequate beta testing. Hence the hiss problem. What is adequate beta testing? Hiss reared its head only on a few systems. What do you theorize are the conceivable multiplicity variations on a possible HT rig. Is that how many beta’s should be hired and system configs tested. Pi times what?

Are you referring to the DTS-ES fix?. Yep that was a real BIG fiasco, noticed no one even noticed (including professional reviewers/beta testers/ and self-styled audiophiles), until massi2u
brought it up and posted almost 2 years after launch. Outlaw had a ‘fix’ in place within something like 19 business days from original query by consumer to posted official fix. I do agree ….I LIKE their service!

It also has what I consider flimsy construction. Mine is so much lighter than all those DVD chassises out there! Take that amp section out of the super receivers and see what you end with.
Edit: cause I did not like my prior sentence, - was not Mac to Mac, I find construction quality perfectly comparable in its class (pre-pros)
The on off button is almost Fisher/Price quality. Only stands up to a 3-yr old? Good thing I use the remote!

The in/out jacks on the back are not solid, they are loose compared to other Pre/pros.
I’d guess you got a ‘bad’ unit. Rock solid and high quality are the reviews I’ve seen and the condition of the 3 units I’ve had. In fact they held up very well when I mistaking tried to rip out my ‘locked’ barrels one day. (whoops- that was early days with locking connectors!)

The finish is cheap. I like it (and green is the color of money) but right now I’m in my black developmental stage. Hate those high-end silver jobs, messing up my whole black theme. But I know someone who shops first for ‘Silver’, he likes silver right now. I used to love brushed high-grade thick aluminum plates, in fact, Outlaw IS kinda responsible for me heading towards the ‘dark’ side now. I noticed my flat screen type LCD floated above all black components in a way I preferred over silver drawing the eye down and away from the video.

The noise floor is only adequate especially on SACD/DVD audio. There are bench-tested units that beat it and bench tested units it beats.
I put it in the same class as the ‘digital teeth’ effect of Digital processing Vs old analogue tube lovers when digital first hit the scene. Because analogue has infinite variations upon increments of possible electrical replications on the chart. Vs the jagged teeth effect of the exact ‘stops’ of digital, which would be either on or off one of the stops. Till digital could process a greater number of these points out of all possible. (to me) There was a cold mechanic's to sound in early digital processing Vs Analogue. I much preferred the analogue with its higher noise floor. Personally regardless of the spec, I truly am happy with the end result the 950 puts out (end sound of)

returned because it froze up the first time ouch!, that sort of thing ruins my day!.

Mike! I do believe you and I are in a shootout! Woodrow to Gus "Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in a while." Time to remove my “The Red Violin” CD and insert a Ennio Morricone score. It exhilarating, but I’m going to get in BIG trouble with my professional deadlines. Look in later!. Take care!.


Edit: Gus (that ole latin lover, - was speaking to Woodrow (a pragmatist) for “Lonesome Dove” dot your iers


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited June 18, 2003).]

As opposed to 'flawless' products from other A/V manufacturers?

As a long time user of Lexicon products I can tell you that if that company had waited till all the flaws had been worked out before releasing a product, they wouldn't have released a single surround processor; let alone any of their pro/studio gear. That's right: none (zero, zip, nada). And this from a company that whose reputation is built on solid engineering.

In the real world, there are no manufacturers releasing flawless products. The real measure of a company then is how they deal with any problems that may crop up with their products. In this area, Outlaw has stood head and shoulders above the competition. Do you know of many (if any) companies that have been more responsive to their customers? I once looked up the word 'fiasco' (I forget which dictionary) and the definition read: "spectacular failure". The hiss and DTS/LFE problems don't come close to being anything that severe. Further, both were dealt with as timely and painlessly as logistically possible. You've been doing nothing but "complainin" since your first post in this thread. If you want to call it something else, fine. But no matter how you choose to label it, one else is mistaking your baseless claims as "pointing out the facts". What's a better deal? Have you found surround processors that have more features and better quality for less money than the 950? If so, can you name a few? (Go ahead, I'll wait.)

Sanjay