Fellow Oulaws……

I am in the first week of a second blue dot b-stock 950. The first blue dot 950, the S-video VCR input, it appeared the “gain” structure was extremely low, resulting in a very dark and off color picture. Outlaw service sent me another 950, apparently before I even had hung up the phone (thumbs up here!)

But after hooking up the second unit, it also appears to have video problem. This time the picture appears to be saturated, too much gain, facial tones almost completely washed out. (On all S-video inputs and s-video monitor ouput. Mostly likely the problem is occurring in monitor output section, since the same washed out result is present no matter which S-video input is used)

After reducing the picture and brightness levels on my monitor to almost nothing, and playing with the flesh tones, I end up with a picture that is on par or slightly worst than what looks like an old VHS tape play back using any source (DVD, Sat, Cable, DVR, or VHS recorder).

Now, while expecting some signal lost going through a switcher (in the 950) and additional lost because of extra cable length (going to AND from the 950), so far the video performance from the two 950s I have received is lacking (worst than my old receiver).

I would appreciate any input from others than might have had the same problems. Little is known about the other two 950 clones……….. are they getting the superior/better performing units, maybe with tighter specs and quality control? While Outlaw widens their specs and is more “forgiving”?

While all three companies selling the “950” are quite “closed lipped” about their differences, one has to assume there has to be some differences. Any new input on these differences?

Maybe I am just asking too much from the Outlaw 950?

The silver lining so far in this situation is the Outlaw commitment to making me happy. I just hope I am not too much a pain in the butt! ;-)


------------------
"In Search Of The Lost Cord"

Odd...I have had two units (post - red dot, then blue dot) and have not seen any video switching problems (up-conversioning is not the best but decent). Could this be symptomatic of being B-Stock? These units may have had other quality issues...before you spend oodles more for one of the clones, I would suggest a slight cost increase for an A-Stock 950 or just keep playing 950 roulette on the B-Stocks until you get one you are happy with.

Oaf may be right, you may want to try an "A" stock 950. I have not had a single problem with the switching of any input/output on my 950. However, I can understand your frustration. Outlaw was so quick to send you another unit that you were impressed. It would have been better if the video inputs/outputs could have been checked before sending you another unit. Sure this would have caused a delay but you would have been another satisfied customer instead of one that is contemplating the purchase of a "clone." Obviously Outlaw will replace this defective 950 again, but the time and cost spent sending you replacement units far outweighs the time and cost of a QC check before sending out the unit in the first place. Stay with us, don't let the sheriff catch you, an outlaw behind bars is a sad sight. Outlaw will make it right.

Are you recording with the VHS?

I have my video straight from VHS to display.
Only sending the audio through the 950.

Basicly its hard to bear VHS resolution (for me) especially with the addition of a 60" display. VHS on my 27" wasnt that bad (depending on the tape) pushed to 60...egads!

I personally do not own a PVR device. But with most consumers using TIVO etc. Do you even need to route the VHS video through the 950?
Just a thought.



[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited May 15, 2003).]

First of all let's say that it may not be outlaws fault but could be the fault of your tv being too bright(ala toshiba etc.),or even your choice of cables(assuming their not outlaws).However the fact that you had two different results with two different machines(assuming everything else was the same)does suggest the 950.Now I hate to say anything negative about the outlaws,because I think they are a great bunch of guys and gals,but I think there might be- or may have been some problems with the 950 design.This opinion is based on your experience and a review I read which claimed the 950 was a little noisy and undetailed-now i think the review was comparing the 950 to a pre/pro considerably more expensive,so perhaps this point is irrelevant.I think IF there is or was a problem it may have to do with the grounding of the unit or it's circuit board,or could be a quality control issue.It would be interesting as a test to plug a "problem unit" into a panamax surge protection unit that uses "double L filtration"which I beleive grounds everything better.Now since I don't own and have never heard the 950 my comments may be completely untrue,I just thought i should throw in my 2 cents.In the spirit of throwing in my 2 cents I would also like to say i am a little dissapointed in the outlaws.I feel most of their products,with the exception of their cables(which I will purchase shortly)and perhaps their amplifiers,are a little behind the curve.Their was a brief period where the outlaw receiver was way ahead of the curve,but now I feel it and other products may be a little behind the "technological" curve.This does not mean their products are not good values,as they probably are,especially if sound quality is more important to you than the latest "whizz bang" features-it's just that I think they can do,and should be doing just a little bit better.By the way let me just state that I have never used or heard any outlaw product so I am not directly critisizing any of their products.

Thanks to those who have already responded…….. I am just trying to get a feel of other users……….. I did come across a old Outlaw newsletter stating some video problems, but in reference to conversion mostly.

To give a bit more detail of other equipment surrounding the 950:

Monster Cable AVS 2000 voltage stabilizer
Monster Cable HTPS 7000
Monster Cable M-Series Audio, Speaker and Video Cabling
Panasonic 32” Monitor
Hughes Sat Receiver
ReplayTV Hacked DVR
JVC Super VHS
Audix Nile 20 Left Right
Audix Nile 10 Surround
Audix Nile 5 Surround Back
Bohlender-Graebener Radia X1 Center Channel
Onkyo DV-SP800

And……..oh yeah……… Outlaw Model 770

So far sonically I have no complaints……… in fact even in the much demonized stereo play back (with out being in bypass) it sounds wonderful (yes, in bypass the field opens up even more and with more detail)…….

My back ground is in pro audio (not as much as some who post on this boarad)……. And I was expecting to be “just” satisfied with the audio portion of the 950……… but to my surprise I am quite pleased. I believe one would have to spend quite a bit more to achieve any real gain in audio section of this piece.

I am a bit surprised in the obvious differences in the video quality between the two units. And I will ask for a third unit after I get back from a convention next week…….. but over all I want to express my pleasure (even though having to hook, unhook and rehook…….and the future unhooking and rehooking…….……) with the Outlaws so far.

This is a labor of love…….. I think most of us are searching and grasping for the final inch out of a mile……. We are looking for that one texture on one note on one solo…… or to but it another way………. “……in search of the lost cord”……. ;-)

Thanks for everyone’s input and ideas……..


------------------
"In Search Of The Lost Cord"

NBStwoABQ -- As someone who runs all of his video signals as S-Video (digital cable, DVD, and S-VHS) and switches them with the 950, I am surprised to hear about problems like those you are experiencing. Particularly since I've had a total of four different 950's in my system in the last year and never had any problems with the S-Video switching. The differing natures of the two problems would seem to make a cable problem unlikely (although a few tests with directly connecting different components with those cables -- particularly the "monitor out" cable -- would offer some additional confirmation). I doubt it's due to interference of any sort (and power cords lying against your "monitor out" cable?). Quite perplexing. I expect that Outlaw will get you squared away soon, though.

master of disaster -- The 950 did have video problems with the first handful of shipping units (turbo had one, as I recall, although I haven't seen him around here since it was resolved). All of those units, probably under a dozen total, were replaced last April. Subsequent units were originally slated to have the composite/s-video conversion disabled, but ended up keeping it with the qualification that Outlaw recommends keeping video signals in the same format (which it looks like NBStwoABQ is doing). Beyond that, I am not aware of any video switching problems inherent to the 950's design (individual defects such as those NBStwoABQ has encounted notwithstanding).

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

For testing purposes have you tried the direct method of hooking the VCR's S-Video out directly into your display S-Video input? That would eliminate the 950 from the equation and be proof positive that your VCR is still outputting the quality you previously saw.

Just an update......the Outlaws customer service comes through again....... since I will be out of town I requested that a replacement 950 to be delivered next Friday.....the day I return....... and they said "No problem".......

Gonk - thanks for the ideas......never hurts to have two heads.......but I tried almost every combination possible and checked everything twice. The last thing I really want to do is repatch everything again ;-)

Well, until next weekend ;-)

------------------
"In Search Of The Lost Cord"

Interestingly, you are using an onkyo dvd player,which is essentially a souped up toshiba.I do beleive toshiba's automatically set the white level to 7.5 ire which is too high for america(I beleive it is correct for japanese equipment)-You should be able to easily change it to 0 ire in the menu somewhere.This may solve some of the problems.Also I would mention that I recently used to own a panasonic tv and did have trouble adjusting the brightness,so that to get it bright enough it had to be a little washed out-I think this was because of the dark glass they used + they're probably somewhat subdued,not too bright picture tubes.I think philips makes the best tv's,although quality control wise I have heard some complaints online(of course every large manufacturer has complaints).By the way considering all the POSITIVE reviews on the 950 I am probably off base that there is anything wrong with the unit.By the way with all that equipment I hope you have everything plugged into the same surge/power device,because in my (admitedly limited) experience if you plug different equipment that is connected into different surge/grounding devices it can create a ground loop which conceivably could cause some video problems.