I have been comparing Outlaw to both Athem and Rotel lately. Not sure if the Anthem and Rotel gear is worth the extra cash giving the reviews and input from some Rotel owners. The performance differences are extremely subtle across all three - Outlaws have a better price.
SET-UP:
950 - pre/pro
755 amp - center, surrounds, rears
200 amp (two) - left and right fronts
Martin Logan Ascents/Theater - fronts/center
Paradigm - rears and surrounds

Comments are welcome.

Thanx.
PhatLac

Unless you already have the 755 or a pair of 200's, the 770 would be less expensive and take less space. Of course, the setup you describe would let you leave the 755 off while listening to two-channel stuff.

What Paradigms are you considering pairing up with the ML's? I've got a friend with a pair of Aeon's who is slowly updating his system from an old Pro-Logic system.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

With the MLs I got the Referece Studio 100 fronts and Studio CC for the center. Surrounds are ADP170s.

I would like to drive the Ascents with an isolated 200 watts each. I don't want them starving for power. I've heard them with excellent power and "just enough" power. I liked them better with excellent power which is what started all this upgrade stuff for me.

Thanx for the input.

PhatLac.

ph- I really like this:



Why? Because I similarly, but not exactly the same, run a stereo amp for the fronts, and a 5 channel for center, surrounds, & rears.

Oh yeah, I had a summary of what I thought the differences were between the 950 and the Rotel, here's the thread, but it kind of degenerated:

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000712.html

IMO, the double bass problem of the Rotel *is* a big deal. I personally didn't buy it only because of that. And it was available before the 950. Well, before the red dot (era) unit.

Isolated power for the Ascents certainly makes sense. It sounds like you've got a pretty good plan worked out.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

phatlac, if you've already made your decision to go with the Outlaw 950/770/755 (etc.), I'm sure you will be extremely happy with your purchase and the level of performance it gives you. If you are still comparison shopping, I would like to suggest you look a little more deeply at the Rotel gear.

First, don't believe everything you read for or against various products without asking someone who actually knows. For example, I had a long conversation with a Rotel manufacturing rep just last week and learned that the Rotel 1066 has improved its bass management substantially from its first production run. You can now choose to have or not have the double bass so often mentioned. You can have bass management on analog as well as digital inputs. Yes, you have the same low filter setting on all speakers (rather than the 950's different settings for mains, center, and surrounds), but you can assign completely different settings for each digital (or analog) playback mode (vs. the 950's one size fits all modes). Since I haven't yet gotten big into DVD-audio playback, the Rotel's option makes more sense to me, as I find DD5.1 requires different bass mgmt. vs. DTS 5.1 vs. DD Prologic II vs. DD6/7.1 vs. DTS 6/7.1, vs. stereo analog, etc. I don't want to have to change the bass setting each time a DVD requires a different playback mode from the previous one. If/when I do get big into DVD-audio, I'll go with 4 full range speakers, or an Outlaw ICBM, or both. (the ICBM is cheaper than a new pair of speaker cables!) Or I might just upgrade to the new Rotel 1088 pre/pro which has separate bass mgmt for each speaker in your system (similar to the Anthem, and priced the same -- $3,000)... Unless Outlaw has their high-end pre/pro off the drawing boards by then.... (Our local Rotel dealer gives 100% of the purchase price as an incentive for any trade-up ocurring within one year from date of purchase - on any piece of audio/video gear including cables!) One last item, everyone still claims the 1066 does not have HDTV-capable component switching, which is untrue. Rotel changed from the original 50Mhz chip after the first 3-6 months of production, and currently uses a 200Mhz chip for its component switching in the 1066. What bandwidth does the 950 employ?

In summary, just as you always need to "listen for yourself," you should also do a little of your own research. Especially when you are asking the "defenders of the faith" about some one else's philosophy. Make up your own mind and then enjoy!

I don't believe that your info is correct. The latest I have seen on the double bass problem on the 1066, is that to get rid of it, you actually have to cut out 2 resistors inside the unit:

http://www.htguide.com/CFBoards/index.cf...tartRow=1&CFB=1

i don't understand how the mentioned different modes require "different bass management".

bass management is applied according to your speaker system, not what 'mode' you're in. four full range speakers are not gonna cut it for dvd-a/sacd formats, at least not the ML/paradigm system mentioned above (BTW, this speaker combo will sound very good...what sub system?).

the 950's bass management is a 'set it and leave it' system for both analog bypass modes and digital modes. it lacks some tweakability, but, to be honest, most folks i have talked to who have lexicon or meridian types of tweakability end up damaging their soundfields more than helping them, as these are extremely complex tweaks. they require a very high-end speaker system and very intimate user knowledge of their reactions to the different settings.

i spent a good part of today at my local tweeter shop with a very cool salesperson. he let me drag the mirage omni 260, sonus faber and vienna acoustic speakers into the martin logan room.

i was basically looking to upgrade my speaker system. i took along diana krall (thanx, Will), james taylor and spyro gyra, all multi-channel sacd. i also took my wife, who has perfect pitch and flawless hearing.

the hardware included a b&k ref 50, b&k multi amp (i also tried the denon 5803 for a short while) and a sony triple 9 ES player and monster power.

the mirage omnis are good speakers for the money, the VA and sonus are great speakers but very pricey and the ML clarity speakers, i must say, are very, very good speakers and priced reasonably for the quality.

both the omni sub and the ML descent sub are...well...crap (sorry if that offends anyone).

my wife then shocked me by saying that i should keep what i have or buy the ML setup, though she didn't think they were enough better than our current system to justify 6 grand.

when we got home, i sat her down with the same disc we last listened to at tweeter. i was all set to chide her as i was sure she was dead wrong. she wasn't.

so...how could it be that this cacophony of speakers/amps sounds so good?

a. i have a vastly superior LF system.
b. placement and calibration are shockingly pathetic at tweeter...my system is anally placed and calibrated (and i now see the absolute importance of this aspect of multi-channel listening enjoyment).
c. the 950 is a very, very good multi-channel preamp at a price that simply puts a smile on my face, backed by a very, very cool bunch of guys for 5 years. if the anthem, or any other $3K preamp sounds 3 times better than the 950 (and i positively know this isn't true), then knock over the mailman running to buy it.

whatever you end up with, read the manual, understand it's capabilities and weaknesses, place and calibrate your speakers (and then do it again), research and buy as good a player as you can afford and research and buy the best produced software available in each format....then, and only then...listen.

if it don't float your boat at that point, you have 30 days to say, 'no thanks'.

phatlac,

Most of the people who post here, including me, are happy Outlaw owners. We often talk about quirks and usability issues, but for the most part we've plunked down our money and are very happy with the 950. We are certainly going to be biased toward the 950. I certainly am, I don't think you can touch it at the price point. I didn't consider hardly anything else.

If you want to get a less biased view you may find that at www.avscience.com or www.hometheaterforum.com .

Personally I am extremely happy with my 950 and would buy it again.

Sherwood Newcastle may be coming out with a pre-pro in the same price range in the next few months. It may be worth checking that out if you've not in a hurry. I have had good experience with their gear as well (and am using their 5 channel amp with my 950).

------------------
Philip Hamm

[This message has been edited by Philip Hamm (edited April 28, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by Philip Hamm (edited April 28, 2003).]

Has anyone investigated a similar hardware mod to correct the double bass problem in the 950? It would seem to be a simple task to defeat the summing.