Until you answer the question I've asked several times above, you'll just be considered another "tin-horn"

Gee, John, I sure hope you're not responsible for anything of significance. I could see you pacing off a few feet instead of doing a site survey or dispensing drugs by pouring some onto your hand until it "feels right." (Yes, a cheap shot. I admit it. )

Seriously, listening to components is a key aspect of making a purchase decision; but this is science, too, and it is IMHO profoundly misguided to praise the subjectivity of frail human hearing and pooh-pooh the realities of circuit design and component choice. As pointed out earlier, therein lies the voodoo of home audio that allows all manner of chicanery and charlatanism to thrive in the marketplace.

So, now that you're a gunslinger, pace off 20 and spin around, pard. Let's test your speed and your aim and settle this like men, not just a bunch of argumentative audio hobbyists.

[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited April 09, 2003).]

I will say this, I admire Outlaw for allowing this discussion as I dont think to many manufactures would allow it. I mean no disrespect to anybody here on this forum especially soundhound (who seems to really know his stuff). I hope that nobody is too pissed off and had some fun posting on this thread. I still diasagree with most points but some valid observations have been made.

God bless you'll and God bless our troops!

Posted before the last two comments showed up. Anyway, to your question I just dont know why one pre-pro would sound different then another if neither is coloring the sound (assuming that neither pre-pro is, and all I have to go by is soundhounds ears with no specs of my own on hand to verify)..I do know that to my ears they do have different characteristics and I can almost always tell a difference and always know which I personally prefer (its not my imagination as others I have over hear the same things I do most of the time)..whatever the reason



[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 09, 2003).]

Here are some Sound & Vision LAB results. The Anthem, Sunfire, and Aragon were compared in the same write-up.

1) AC3 NOISE LEVEL on 16bit Signal (the larger the negative the better):
Sherwood 7108 -68.5 ($300 receiver)
Yamaha rx-v730 -67.7 ($599 receiver)
Sony DA4ES - 74.9 ($999 receiver)

Sherbourn PT-7000 -72.4 (Outlaw 950 clone)

Anthem AVM20 - 75.2 dB
Sunfire TGIII - 75.4 dB
Aragon Stage One - 75.6 dB

2) MULTICHANNEL ANALOG Inputs - Distortion (1 kHz at 200mV)
Sherwood 7108 0.05%
Yamaha 730 0.03%
Sony 4ES 0.02%

Sherbourn PT-7000 0.02%

Anthem 0.05%
Sunfire 0.02%
Aragon 0.003% (one tenth the distortion level!)

3) MULTICHANNEL ANALOG Inputs Noise Level (A-wtd re 200mV) The larger the negative the better.

Sherwood 7108 -74.5 dB
Yamaha 730 -80.4 dB
Sony 4ES -79.2 dB

Sherbourn -69.8 dB (the worst of the lot, is this Soundhound's "absolute transparency"?)

Anthem -84.4 dB
Sunfire -87.2 dB
Aragon -88.3 dB


[This message has been edited by Ricky (edited April 09, 2003).]

Ricky - puleease get off it!

What exactly you are trying to prove? I have never encountered anybody who so steadfastly tries to prove some "point", whatever that "point" may be. Don't you have other things to worry about? Really, are you a representative from some other competeting manufacturer? I can't honestly think of anybody who would go to such trouble to "prove" that a particular piece of equipment is inferior unless they had some vested interest.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited April 09, 2003).]

You know that party I was talking about a few posts back? What usually happens is that the other guests leave.

That might not be such a bad idea here.

C'Ya. I'm outta this thread.

[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited April 09, 2003).]

Soundhound. Shhhhhh. Gently. I told John once he gave me ‘great face’ in the ubiquitous sense of an Asian foe. (Right John!) I too have felt my temp start to rise. It is hard when you are chased wherever you roam, and harder yet when chased to your own doorstep. But think of it this way, in reflection class it a compliment, - that many positive aspects of the 950, not least of which, is that many owners express deep satisfaction, is so all-fired negatively consuming to others.
Relax your indignance, study and consider: There will be some that seek to separate others from their satisfactions to the light of their own purposes. When uncontrolled undisciplined acts which appear sometimes cruel and unrelenting are viewed from a different angle a new picture can appear. Others fears can be a source of knowledge for us. Observe what motivates a fearfully intense reaction and you find the seed of that fear. Fanatical certainty, which books no exception but its acceptance, expends great energies and comes at a price. That certainty demands ceaseless and exhausting reinforcement. We however, - too timid to feel empowered to choose for others, Live well. It is the greatest revenge. Music unfortunately does not soothe every savage breast, there will always be those who know the price of everything yet never peace to relish the value of anything.

In a rather bizarre way I feel that there are a few, whom never having purchased a 950, are yet Outlaw Owners, - or more properly OWNED by Outlaw. When I consider:
That which worries us - Masters us.

Ricky, JT - how do you conduct A/B testing?
In your original post, you only describe your set up. How about the method?



[This message has been edited by nonzero (edited April 09, 2003).]

Beautifully said SLL...



Me too... but not before thanking Ricky...

Thank you Ricky.
Before this topic, I thought you were just an overly enthusiastic audio buff.

Your performance here has set the highest standard of self-inflicted abasement. There is, however, no objective scale for this achievement. I believe you would establish one if it were at all possible.

All your time and effort has only proved you to be a very pathetic, pathological, mean-spirited, and confused person. Notice I did not say stupid...
Stupid people have an excuse.

Bye Bye...

Now I remember why I do not spend much time over at HTF any more. Too much ego and too little real information.