I happen to own an Aragon amp (which I use for front channels with my 950) and it is superb. As a result, the Stage One is one of the few pre/pros about which I have a burning curiosity.

Nonetheless, I would be delighted to see Ricky go elsewhere to share his thoughts, perhaps another HT forum that is not product-specific. (I don't remember seeing Ricky's "A vs B demo" appearing on the Klipsch/Aragon forum. Why post on this corporate forum and not the other?)

His unsolicited, self-prompted and self-described "A vs B demo" -- which is really more like stream of consciousness notes for a proper product comparison -- just doesn't fit here.

Stepping in with this sudden whatever-he-wrote on two pre/pros at utterly different price points -- something no responsible REAL writer would ever do -- is like being a bad guest at a party who insists on donning a lampshade and yelling out his conversation topics regardless of what the rest of the guests want to discuss. It's a pretty unpleasant personality trait.

And don't think I have an axe to grind with Ricky. I'm just writing up an "A vs B demo" of appropriate and inappropriate behavior "which I've done many times on many different products."

[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited April 07, 2003).]

Ouch, Yes your right my spelling is pathetic and I dont bother to do a spellcheck, oh well..Secondly I AM an Outlaw owner (ICBM) so I voted with my pocketbook as well.

As far as getting rid of my ancient useless Soundstage goes, I have no desire to part with it at this moment but the time will come as it always does.

Following Ricky ? well we do have the same speakers/setup and Ricky is one of the few people that I trust with an informed unbiased opinion. Its not about me defending my aragon pre-pro, you can crack on it all you want, I could care less. It was the same when I had the lexicon mc-2,dc-2,h/k8000,denon 3802 etc etc.

Somebody said the review wasnt apples to apples.... well he was right and in a way I guess that IS the point, sorry you dont like the outcome.

Theres nothing else to be said here by me.To those who own the 950, you have a nice product that is a bargain at 899.00 and would be worth 300~500 more in all honesty, what else can be asked of it.




[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 07, 2003).]

Well, this may not be the appropriate place to talk about that... But I think it is.

Sherwood Newcastle has announced that they will release a replacement for their long discontinued AV-P9080 some time in the next 6 months or so. It should have all the bells and whistles, and since the 9080 had a list price of $1199 I would expect that the price range would be about the same as the Outlaw 950.

I have a 950 and I like it a lot. I used to have a 9080 and I liked that as well (but I needed an ICBM to go with it).

------------------
Philip Hamm

Some of you have some nerve. First you talk about me without my knowledge (in the KCB at HTF thread) before I arrived. Then, had no problems debating and sorta teaming up on me in that long thread. Some had a beef with me not hearing the Outlaw in my own system. Then, I borrowed it and post this review and you want me to leave? Whatever.

I see several posts asking about how the 950 compares to other products; I'm sure these are from prospective, not current or past, 950 owners. And don't tell me this is just about Aragon. I am certainly not married to one brand, I've owned over a dozen processors and will continue to try others. Like B&K or Anthem, or perhaps one day a Theta or Meridian, or a Pioneer Elite receiver with MCACC, and on and on.

Here's what someone posted in response to my review on another forum.

"Careful Ricky, I posted some not too flattering comments about the 950 on another forum. What followed were not only posts but emails telling me I was everything from stupid to the Anti-Christ.
I had purchased one for a second system, found it unacceptable, then returned it."
Why should he get nasty emails for voicing his own opinion on a product he bought, tried in his own home, and returned? I have never heard anyone getting nasty emails from owners of any brand. Talk about unappropriate behavior!

Bossobass,
Thanks for not sharing the view that I should leave. I didn't post too many specs, because like you said, anyone can ask. If you ever want to discuss anything, feel free to call me, or you can find me on other forums.

LMAO!

Championing Ricky as unbiased is like calling the Iraqi Information Minister unbiased.

On the other hand... Oliver North... very unbiased and also "Fair and Balanced"... told me that I should use some precision guided weapons on my pathetic 950/770 Outlaw regime. I decided to go with a 10 pound sledgehammer.

Soon we will rebuild my system so that my speakers can feel the freedom that only "Fair and Balanced" equipment like yours can provide. Until then, I am sure that those Outlaws will continue to deny the cold hard facts that they have inferior systems.

Not so "Fair and Balanced", Wolf Blitzer likes my system just as it is... but what does he know?


[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited April 07, 2003).]

I'm a Gunslinger now, I'm a Gunslinger, I'm a Gunslinger, and that last post was the 2000th on this 950 topic category.

Thank you. Thank you very much...

AGAssarsson has just left the building.

[This message has been edited by AGAssarsson (edited April 07, 2003).]

This must be the understatement of the century. If you really want to compare on price point, take the 950/7100 combo ($1700 new) and compare it to anything else you can find new for $1700.



For $5-6K new, one certainly hopes that the Lexicons would beat a $900 pre/pro.

And finally, while I hate to perpetuate a topic that's way past its bed time, I would like to offer a general observation related to how well the 950 competes with other pre/pros that cost 2-n times more: Outlaw offers a really great way to decide for yourself whether its fact or just marketing bulls**t -- buy it and try it. If you don't like it, Outlaw will refund the cost of the 950 AND shipping. Because of that, and notwithstanding the usefulness of sharing subjective reviews in a forum like this, it seems pointless for the "950 vs. the world" debate to rage on, fueled as it is by the angst that some have carried over from other forums and threads.

For those of you who prefer the Aragon, Lexicon, Meridian, B&K, Anthem, Theta or Pioneer processors, that's fine with me. However, please don't condescend to explain the particulars of how each unit is supposedly superior to the 950 according to your pet criteria. There are so many things that conspire to shape our perceptions of these products that it seems foolish to become tediously dogmatic in the way that we share our opinions of them.

What do I have to do to get the shipping refund? I didn't know we got that. I'm not sure I still have my receipt.

brianca..

Ricky, I bet your head is spinning. And yes you are right. You came into the Outlaw forum posting your disagreements with various Outlaw owner opinions of their 950. Since you stated you disbelieved owners who stated they preferred the 950 after comparing the 950 to other units (but not at home in their own system). It was pointed out to you during rebuttal, that you had never demeod a 950 at home in your own system. So you did, Then took flak…..very disconcerting. I’d agree.

Back to John, I am not saying that Ricky does not have integrity. Please… Rereading my post I note I did indicate that Ricky (from what he has told me) Is most definitely against the idea that any pre-pro priced less than more expensive pre-pros cannot feasible match a more expensive pre-pro therefore theoretically better built unit and set out to prove his “you get what you pay for” stance. He also has stated that he was offended by Outlaw owner’s even suggesting that it could equal a pre-pro which was 2-3 times as expensive. And that any attempt to prove this was a clear-cut case of ‘hype’. (Have I got that right Ricky?).

If Ricky is as prone to human foibles as I am. He chose to do a A/B to refute some posters who commented that he had been posting against a 950 for a year without ever demoing it in his own system….this comment was directed to him after he suggested that other posters who compared it very favorably to other units had not performed this test (950against other units) IN there own system, therefore their opinions were not valid. So he put up to shut up….very admirable that you spent more time to do this Ricky…you have stick-to-it-ness!

John, honestly yes, I do certainly feel it would be difficult for someone who was eaten up by a desire to convince others of his viewpoint since before 950’s were even available that he could 100% lay aside all closely held prejudices and pre-formed opinions during a A/B.

This does not invalidate his A/B to me I just weight it. Unlike our court system, which can often disallow pertinent information such as a client’s proclivity for repeated same offensive record being ruled inadmissible to the current jury. I do know Ricky’s and your own vocal history as regards the 950, before the product was even available. And I WILL down score his particular A/B knowing that history. My right, just as it your right to ‘trust’ his opinion.

If that stance is outrageous to you, I feel it is purely commonsense. When I first came into to Outlaw, I factored that I was in ‘home territory’ for owners and took points off of what I read while in Outlaw and additionally what I read when in Club Rotel, Argonost, even AVS if it was an owner dominated thread.
Just my method of gathering opinion and rating +/- for bias. I do this in an attempt to find a balanced middle ground between the extreme positive and negative information readily available on the web on products whenever I research a purchase.

If I felt threatened by all the owners of other products who state: “I have concluded My A sounds better than B/C/D product”, and found these opposing reviews and posts intolerable and misinformed -then I guess I’d go hang out in threads which are posted concerning the other products, to prove my B is better than their A. I don’t. I just hang out at my own campfire where I’m a happy camper, conversing with other happy and sometimes confused fellow campers and wishing the constant rain of other owners who appear very worried about the “rightness” of their own purchase when compared to mine….would let up now and then, so I can roast my marshmallow.

And John, please note. I am only commenting and do not feel ‘out of line’ at all as regards the poor judgement of coming into a Company owned forum, selling competitors products.

If I was Mac, I would not allow you to set up a HP booth in my lobby, I’d tell you to go rent your own Office space.

congrats AGAssarsson!!


PS. Same time posting very nicly stated Pleary! I'm going to 'put it to bed now' buy a raincoat, and dance down the road.



[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited April 07, 2003).]