I am hoping someone can tell me how to address this. I am getting an approximately 5 second audio drop-out immediately following the layer change when watching a movie in DTS-ES. At this point, the 950 seems to cycle through the DTS decoding formats and after 3-5 seconds it will lock on DTS-ES. This also happens when forwarding through chapters. Is there anyway around this? I keep missing dialog just after the layer change in the movie I am watching. It is strange that the 950 wouldn't just stay in DTS-ES mode instead of having to again read and recognize the DTS-ES flags. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

John

[This message has been edited by nohjy (edited April 03, 2003).]

My old Sony pre/pro did that too. It got to be annoying enough for me to buy a Denon DVD player (I bought the 3800). Denon's players all have a 4-16mb buffered playback, I rarely notice a layer-change anymore.

Other than buying a dvd-player w/ a buffer (not sure if any other than the denon rigs have it), I believe the 950's manual addresses this audio drop. Something about not auto-decoding the signal but "locking" in a certain sound format? Sounds mildly annoying to me...

[This message has been edited by jgubman (edited April 03, 2003).]

I've a watched a couple DTS-ES movies, and haven't noticed this. You could try switching between optical and coax, or try a different input on the 950. Might also be your player too.

I tried changing auto detection to dts and didn't help. It still first recognizes the signal as DTS and then recognizes the dts-es flag and then the sound kicks in. Is there any way to lock it on dts-es?

I have determined the drop out is 3 seconds long and it does it not only at layer changes, but whenever using chapter forward only on DTS-ES titles.

Can someone try this for me:

play a dts-es title and try using the chapter forward on your dvd player. After the dvd gets to the next chapter how long does it take for your audio to lock in? I can't believe this is the DVD player (its practically brand new and its connected via toslink). Thank you in advance.

I've got to go meet a plumber at the house, so I'll try to get a minute to check this out. It's not something I've noticed with either Panasonic player that I've used with my 950 (DVD-A310 and DVD-RA60). Granted, I don't have that many DTS-ES discs, but I did some of my early testing of the 950 with my A310 and Gladiator...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

play a dts-es title and try using the chapter forward on your dvd player.

Nohjy……Just popped in GLADIATOR, did not have time to mess with awaiting layer changes. But chap. skipped.
The 950 LCD will display DTS, then flip to the DTS-ES flag, although there is slight and acceptable delay, acquisition of sound occurs while the 2nd line of the 950’s LCD screen is still displaying: “Input: DSCS 6.1” and before this readout returns to dB display default.

Panasonic RP91.

Gonk...question, My second 950 is running with a Pioneer DVD multi-tray player I can check, - but its currently 5.0. If I 'tell' the 950 I've got 6/7 speakers running this should be a valid test to ck another DVD players aquisition time...I would think so, it should put the output active and enable the decoder, -wheter there's a speaker to recieve or not. ..Will do it later.


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited April 04, 2003).]

I was a bit pressed for time so I didn't have a chance to compare this to the acquisition time for a regular DTS, Dolby Digital, or Dolby EX track, but I was seeing about a 2 second acquisition time when skipping between chapters on Fellowship of the Ring: Extended Edition in DTS-ES. The layer change on disc 1 is at 47:15 according to Digital Bits, so if I get a chance I'll see how my player handles the layer change this weekend.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Just tested Gladiator on my Denon 3800 and didn't notice the layer change.

I watched a "normal" DTS movie last night. I can spot the layer change (there is a < 1 sec delay on the 47ai), but the 950 did not lose the signal lock. I was watching with the CES-C DTS mode. FWIW...

KCB:

This audio drop out only occurs when playing something in DTS-ES. It does exactly what Lena said. When using the chapter skip (or following a layer change), the 950 loses the lock on the decoding method. It then will recognize a DTS signal and then locks into DTS-ES mode at which point the sound will kick in. This takes approximately 3 seconds to occur. From the other posts and from talking to Scott, this appears to be the way the 950 handles DTS-ES dcoding. It would have been nice if they had allowed for the manual setting of this decoding method, instead of having to rely on the 950 to automatically identify the required decoding method (DTS-ES).

John

My experiences still do not jive with yours.

I watched LOTR and Stargate both in DTS-ES before we all found out about the lack of LFE. Layer change, I spot every time, doesn't matter what the soundtrack is. But the 950 didn't lose the signal lock. If you go back through the other threads, I was very hyper about the 950 losing the lock *during* playing of CDs. So I am very sensitive about that in general. (*Never* had problems with signal lock on the Sony pre/pro I had prior.) But at least with the 47ai and the Denon 3800 with the 950, doesn't seem to happen.

My guess, is that the delay with the layer change on the player you are using is long enough that the 950 *does* lose the signal.

I had even postulated in that other thread, that the 950's "time constant" for maintaining the lock wasn't long enough, because I was losing the lock *in* CDs that I knew ran OK with the Sony with the same exact DVD player. And you're right, switching to a dedicated input with PCM chosen did the trick.

Potential bottom line? If you're looking for an excuse to upgrade your DVD player, this might be it.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited April 07, 2003).]

Kevin:

Now that you mentioned it, I don't recall this happening on my first 950 and I know it didn't happen on my Denon AVR-3802. I did notice it once I received my new 950 with the DTS-ES LFE issue addressed. Can someone who has the 950 version with the DTS-ES LFE fix in place test this? I would greatly appreciate it. Its really strange to me that this only occurs in DTS-ES and nowhere else. My 950 does not lose the signal lock during the layer change or using chapter skip in any other format. Just for the record I have a Panasonic cp-72 DVD player. I honestly do not believe this is my DVD player.

Gonk:

Do you have the DTS-ES LFE fix in place? You seem to be experiencing the same problem. Do you lose the signal lock when using chapter skip? What DVD player are you using?

Lena:

How long is the delay you experience between the new chapter being accessed and the audio kicking in?

Thank you to all for their help! I realize I am being anal about this, but it really is annoying!

John

[This message has been edited by nohjy (edited April 07, 2003).]

.

I've got the DTS-ES fix in place. The culprit here, though, is not in the 950's code. I tried DTS, DTS-ES, Dolby Digital, and DD EX soundtracks after I got the fix in last night. My DVD player still "resets" the digital audio signal when there's a chapter skip with a DTS-ES track, but it does not reset the audio for regular DTS or any Dolby Digital. Any receiver or pre/pro that has to pause to acquire the signal will experience this. It could be related to Panasonic's players -- Kevin's not experiencing it, and he has a Pioneer, but your Panasonic CP72, Smart Little Lena's Panasonic RP91, and my Panasonic RA60 are all doing it.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Gonk- But do you see it across a layer change?

Kevin -- that's the one thing I didn't get a chance to try. I'll check it out soon and see what happens...

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

"Lena: How long is the delay you experience between the new chapter being accessed and the audio kicking in?"

Nohjy, sorry for the delay. I own 2 950's wanted to try it on both.

Main system: w/ Panasonic RP91. 3 sec to 3 1/4
Secondary System: w/ Pioneer DV-C302D 3-disc changer. (this is an old player but not utterly antiquated. 96/24 D/A. 2 sec, sometimes locking in audio just before it hits the 2nd sec mark.

Had to find a watch with a second hand (did not own a stopwatch. This was with Gladiator in DTS-ES on chapter skip forward.

Hope this is helpful.

OK, layer change on disc one of Fellowship of the Ring at 47:15:

Dolby Digital EX: No signal re-acquisition, only brief player hesitation (about 0.5 second).

DTS-ES: Digital audio signal lost and re-acquired (along with accompanying 2 second delay at 950 to identify the signal format).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

On my 2nd 950 paired with the Pioneer player. ( 950 with the Panny is in use at the moment ..I can’t interupt).
Found layer change on ‘Gladiator, Sig. Selection” DTS-ES

I found it on my counter to be at 76:28 or 1:16:28 depending on your counter type. Chapt 14 (XIV)
I have a ½ sec to 1-sec freeze on video, audio reacquires before the video rolls again (under 1/2 sec?).

Less productive was my check of LOTR –Theatrical Version (2-disc) (gonks is 4-disc I believe).
Disc One: DD-EX. 93:25 or 1:33:25 This one lands at the changeover from Chapt 23 to 24. There was no loss of audio signal noted. Bare under 1-sec freeze on video at end of Chapt 23.

Gonk & Lena:

It looks like this is a Panasonic DVD player glitch. Interesting... I don't know what good this information does for me, or anyone else for that matter. Short of discarding my beloved CP72, I am stuck with it. I am just glad to know it isn't the 950. Has anyone tested their Panny dvd player with another receiver or pre/pro to determine if this situation translates to those processors as well? I can't for the life of me remeber this being an issue with my Denon AVR-3802.

Thanks to all for your help, I think we have determined the cause of the mysterious audio drop out!

John

[This message has been edited by nohjy (edited April 08, 2003).]

If it helps I much prefer my Panny 91. The Pioneer was a good unit for a 27 incher. But the 60” begged for the progressive Panny, and I’ve been very happy with it.

I had to return an Sony HD200 STB for being an undercooked platform. It’s acquisition was LIGHTENING compared to my HD RCA DTC-100. When I had to return it I thought I would go crazy for several days..till I got used to my pokey DTC again. I did…..don’t even notice it now.

I have Pana player as well,and I experience the same delay with DTS ES as well,not with DD though.
I also think it's the palyer's doing.