Fellow Outlaws:

We are pleased to let you know that everything is now in place to enable you to correct any Model 950 unit that exhibits the "No LFE output on DTS-ES" bug. Please follow this link for further instructions.

I'll ask just because...

What's stopping me from doing #1 myself? I've changed memory in PCs before, swapped hard drives, added cards, even upgraded a motherboard in an old Mac once.

??

It reads to me that you can change it yourself since they will send the parts to you but you wouldn't have a receipt to collect the $48.

"In the event that these items are not returned to us, whether or not a service charge receipt is enclosed, the unit will not be covered under the Outlaw Five Year Warranty".

I think that this statement from the instructions is saying in a not so direct way, that you can change it yourself, just make sure you return the parts.

Sounds good! For the many of us who want it done by a service depot (as Outlaw recommends, one that's franchised to handle one of the major audio, video or computer brands), it might be beneficial to start listing shops that do this for $48. Anyone know of one in West LA?

Seems to me that the statement is general enough that if you are capable of doing computer upgrade, do the EPROM yourself, generate an invoice for $48 and Outlaw will reimburse you the amount .

I am just a little bit disappointed that Outlaw would not swap out the units that are recently purchased (still within 30 days return guarantee such as mine) .

Hi all,
If you cannot find a major service center in the greater Los Angeles area willing to do the replacement, I will be glad to perform the replacement for free. I live in Torrance near the 405 freeway in the South Bay. I have a static free workstation and grounding strap to ensure an ESD free process. I am a senior electrical systems engineer with Raytheon and have built many control systems involving ESD sensitive components and have yet to have a failure. I have equipment to remove and install both dual inline and PLCC EPROMS. Please feel free to contact me if I can help.
Regards,
TCIII

[This message has been edited by TCIII (edited March 30, 2003).]

Question about option #1...Can I do it? I work on electronics and computer systems for a living right now and am more than competant with Eproms (changing and programming)!

Just throwning this "option #3" out for the other engineers that are competant with this kind of thing and wanted to get some input from Scott or the other Outlaws!

I suspect the invoice is going to have to be from a legitimate shop. I doubt that Outlaw is going to reimburse owners who want to do the upgrade themselves.



Hmm. Once again the Outlaws are assuming the costs for the fix including all postage and shipping. Pretty cool.


[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited March 30, 2003).]

moved to general topic DTS-ES thread.

[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited March 30, 2003).]

I dont want to make any money on replacing the part, I just want to see that they say it is okay and does not void the warranty.

TCIII,

How does one contact you? I just learned of the update, and live in Long Beach. I'm not sure what shop I'd trust?

John Whittaker

Folks,

Not meaning to appear to gloat but I dodged the bullet on this one. I placed my order for a 950 on March 17th and it shipped on the 18th. Scott has informed me that yes mine (and any others shipped after March 17th) has the fix already installed. (I was actually WAY behind on my reading and never learned about the issue until last week, well after I'd placed the order. MAN I do have to stay more current!)

Good luck to all who will now need their's done. Even though I'm not one of them I can say that after going back and reading how this has all unfolded to date, I remain extremely impressed by Outlaw and the great people behind it.

Jeff

Hi John
I would be glad to help you or anyone else in the Los Angeles area who would like assistance with the replacement process. You can reach me at tcoyle@socal.rr.com.
Regards,
TCIII

Are the outlaws not adding the do it yourself option explicitly as a legal issue?


brianca..

I would bet so.. The disclaimer they would have to be huge.. like disconect power to the unit before removing the cover and other terribly obvious things that people have had the habit of suing over... (too hot coffee and other such madness)

TCIII,

I tried to send you an e-mail last night, but Outlook Express balked, stating that your e-mail address is not valid? After some fiddling it seemed to send? Did you receive?

Here's what Outlaw sent me by e-mail in reply to my resquest for the upgrade kit (re warrenty issue?):

"Please disregard our last correspondence. We have received your request
for the "Option 1" update. Your kit is now being packaged and will ship via
the US Postal Service within the next 48 hours. We have included a pre-paid
return envelope in which you must send us the PLCC extractor and the old
chip (inside of the static bag) in order to maintain your Outlaw Audio
Warrantee."

Hi I was also trying to get an email to you,but the address you gave was incorrect,according to "Incredimail",my email program.
Has anybody found any service in the graeter LA area?

Anyone found a spot in the Bay Area, hopefully San Francisco or the Penninsula?

Hi Hun
Hopefully you did not include the period at the end of the "com". I really do get email at "tcoyle@socal.rr.com". John's email did get through. If you still have trouble, you can page me at 310-366-8945.
Regards,
TCIII

They've not encouraging us to change it ourselves, are they? Some people will but I imagine a lot of people won't unless Outlaw says its ok.

Can someone who opens their box to change it post pictures of the 950's innards? I haven't seen any pictures of innards of the current version of the 950.

I would imagine that would open a can of liability worms. My advise would be to have a qualified service facility do the work - you'll be reimbursed for the expense.

Hi all
Before you decide on a hifi service shop or a computer repair facility to do the EPROM replacement, I suggest that you determine if the service shop/repair facility has adequate ESD procedures and equipment in place. I have been in more than one computer repair facility where there were no antistatic workstations, no grounding straps and the sales personnel handled ESD sensitive RAMs with no regard to safe ESD procedures. I do not have much knowledge of how hifi service shops handle ESD sensitive devices such as EPROMS, but they may be as bad or worse than the computer repair facilites. I would make sure that the repair facility/service center knows what they are doing beore I would let them service my 950 if I could not do it myself.
Regards,
TCIII

TCIII,
Thanks,but I decided,to send it in,since I still have the hiss issue as well,so I hope they can take care of both.
Thanks again!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The odds of frying it are pretty slim, and even if you did, it's still under warranty.

brianca...

I agree. The odds of frying the chip are extremely slim. Also, the only requirement to work as a computer technician is A+ certification. This course is very easy and any one can go through it in a few months.

My point is that if Outlaw recommends a PC repair shop to to the swap, you can be sure it is a very simple procedure. As long as you ground yourself while working, you shouldn't have any problems.

Antistatic precaution is not just a matter of avoiding a total failure. The following is information from ESD Systems:

In many cases, ESD events of only a few volts is enough to cause serious permanent damage to semiconductor devices.. At the microscopic level, the damaged area looks like a moon crater or a welded spot where the silicon materials where melted and fused together. ESD events do not always destroy an electronic component immediately on the first occurrence. Sometimes, many events occur over a period of time. Each occurrence adds a bit more damage until the component finally fails. Any damage is always permanent and cumulative. Once the device finally fails completely, the failure is referred to as a catastrophic ESD failure. ESD damage which is not catastrophic leaves the component operable, but damaged, such that it will fail at a later time under normal stresses. The worst part of ESD is that the damage occurs deep within the device at a microscopic level, so you cannot ever see it to verify that ESD was the culprit.
Many electronic companies, large and small, spend a lot of money each year employing ESD preventative practices to reduce the amount of scrap product produced by ESD. Since ESD cannot ever be completely eliminated, you could say that "It's not a matter of if a part will fail, but when."
The scariest thing about ESD is that there are thousands of little computer stores and repair shops around who put together PCs or fix VCRs, TVs, etc. and sell chips who do not practice ESD prevention in any way. Some have told me that they know about ESD and that it really is nothing to worry about with today's technology which is a shock (no pun intended) to me since today's technology is more complex and sensitive than it has ever been. It really bothers me that these people are so much more interested in making a buck than in doing quality work that they will not make the slightest effort to protect your product from ESD even though you think you are paying a professional to take care of anything that could damage your equipment. Part of the reason they prefer not to use ESD preventative practices is that they are just plain lazy or stupid, but the main reason has to do with money. ESD has a way of bringing customers back to the repair shops since most ESD events are not immediately catastrophic. It's people who do business like this that make our world worse for everybody. As far as I'm concerned, this kind of malpractice is rampant, and is the same as stealing from innocent hard working citizens.

Just a word of warning. Be sure that the service center has and uses ESD procedures.

Recieved my replacement chip yesterday, Monday the 7th. Installed it this morning in about 35 minutes and it works great.

All speakers set to large, Gladiator DVD, DTS-ES selected, power amps off, sub on.... the bass was there and in abundance.

The procedure is very simple to perform by following the directions using a grounding strap and philips screwdriver. The toughest part was disconnecting, and reconnecting my system to the 950.

The interior of the 950 is something to behold. Very state of the art and well layed out. Sweet!!!! Just a little pride of ownership...I think you all know what I mean.

Same story here, GMAN. I got mine yesterday and installed it last night. I kept track of my time out of curiosity. I spent ten minutes unhooking the 950 and getting it out of the equipment rack, fifteen minutes to open the 950 and swap the chip, ten minutes to close it back up (I got slowed down by a phone call), and fifteen minutes to get the 950 back in place and running (including a second phone call). The instructions that are provided are very thorough -- several pages long and complete with color pictures of every step.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

I did mine last night. Took about 35 minutes all told. The hardest part was trying to get my short fat fingers under the latch connector thingies. Then I happily set it all back up with my rear surrounds and sub/center reversed. ACK! That Test button comes in handy.

Is the DTS-ES no LFE bug only exhibited when ALL speakers are set to LARGE??

If you are not using DTS-ES that way, I assume the LFE works properly??

Thanks!!

-- Cain

unfortunately, because redirected bass is summed with LFE, there is no practical way to test for this scenario.

my opinion is that in DTS-ES mode, the LFE is simply not being routed to any output, in any scenario. maybe scott can verify this.

[This message has been edited by bossobass (edited April 12, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by bossobass (edited April 12, 2003).]

Re: The insides of the 950

I kind of enjoyed seeing the Outlaw logo prominently displayed on my power supply.

It's kind of like wearing "Rocky and Bullwinkle" underwear. No one will ever know (at least not at MY age) but I have the satisfaction of knowing it's there.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bossobass:
[B] unfortunately, because redirected bass is summed with LFE, there is no practical way to test for this scenario.

my opinion is that in DTS-ES mode, the LFE is simply not being routed to any output, in any scenario. maybe scott can verify this.

Actually pretty easy. Get a disc w/known LFE content. Try Castaway, 25 min. mark, when plane is going down. The container slides back and forth a couple times, and they put an LFE rumble to accent that. And you're right, with DTS-ES, no LFE.
Mike

Anyone gotten their updated card yet?

I am delinquent. I got mine last Monday, but won't have a chance to install it until this thurs...

Got mine, plopped it in on Saturday and got my DTS-ES LFE back.

Had a scare though, when I removed the digital board, I accidentally unplugged the power cable (didn't even notice). Had a scary few minutes there until I removed the case and saw what had happened...

Is anyone here using an audio/video or computer repair shop to do the installation?

Will- I did.

Someone I know used a piece of thread looped under the tab and gently pulled up to disconnect the connectors. May be helpful to other qualified service technicians

Ditto! This part actually took me the longest because I didn't want to screw anything else up in there. Ended up using Outlaw's suggestion of a screwdriver over a finger for leverage.

After I was done with the DTS-ES upgrade I had no DTS from the 950. I could not select it or force DTS of any kind with the 950. I went into the settings of my Sony DVD player and turned everything associated with DTS off and then back on. Now I have DTS-ES and LFE. FYI, just in case someone else has the same symptoms.

is this for all 950's period? I ordered and recv'd my 950 about a week or so ago, do I need to perform this update?

thanks!

Ken, no, you are OK, they started fixing them about a month ago. I can't remember the exact cut off date but I guarantee you are covered if you have only had it a week.

March 17 I believe?