though i refuse to post anything in that forum, i do occasionally read with interest.

i happened to see the 'outlaws ride again' thread last night, where KCB single-handedly fends off all comers with logic and a very high degree of knowledge-based comparison information, which led to his choice of, and satisfaction with, the 950.

it's hilarious to me that the attackers resorted to a 'what if someone offered you an 'X' pre/pro (that costs 4x the price of the 950) in a straight-up trade' scenario.

i would take the trade in a heartbeat...sell the 'X' pre/pro...buy a new 950...and $3,000 worth of other hardware upgrade gear. (duh)

in any case...way to go KCB! you said for all of us, why we chose the 950 and remain satisfied with the choice, while being deluged by ridiculous jabs and nonsense, all the while, remaining calm, polite and factual.

the point, for me, is that, as always, i learned new things from your well researched posts...and absolutely nothing from the attacker's posts.

The 950 still beats all other pre/pro in value,I just read the Sherbourn review ($1500
or more)and it is basically the same (other components, they claim). The rest is in the 2k $ or more.

As with many things it's a sort of hyperbolic cost / benefit curve. Sure, you can get better, but as you move that direction the curve gets steeper, and fairly quickly. I really think Outlaw Audio has scored by finding a very sweet place on that curve.

I was surprised I wasn't getting more support from other Outlaws over there!

It's just wierd, in that there *seem* to be those out there, that are genuinely bothered by the fact that for $899, Outlaw *can* and *does* sell a product that does compete with other manufacturer's products at (IMO) 3x the cost and maybe more. There are some features missing granted, but just for pure audio quality...

I have a thought process in my head about why Outlaw gets trashed so much over there, but I can't quite articulate it yet.

For example, and *someday* I will have a 7.1 capable pre/pro with non-mono rears (just my thing, can't explain it), but I read a review of either the DC-2 or MC-1 that said, when the reviewer opened it up and saw the quality of the parts inside, they were genuinely surprised. In a bad way. They specifically mentioned "cheap" DACs and op amps. And I seem to remember another review mentioning the too-large-for-the-price-point jitter that was added to the signal also by one of these. Yet they get rave reviews, partially, I believe, *because* of their price.

Any of that make sense? Kind of like the 950 upsets the balance of the world in some people's mind, and they attack it. Shoot, *someday* I'll be able to describe my thinking about this better.

KCB: i agree with the 'name game' now, more than ever.

before the internet and forums like this one, research was limited to what the local (and, sometimes, not so local) B&M stores had to show and tell. they were always rigged demos with manufacturer propaganda as a sales pitch.

other than that, were the 'stereo review' type mags that seconded what the sales people told you.

a perfect example, for me, is meridian. super high end stuff. very tweakable, cutting-edge technology. pretty to look at. prices that are higher than a giraffe's tonsils. heck, the dvd industry adopted meridian lossless packing! they MUST be good.

i visited their booth at CES. their multi-channel display was an acoustic nightmare, very 'sit-down-and-demo UNfriendly' and the sound was thin, brittle and...well...crap.

i have since learned a bit about HOW their mlp scheme was adopted vs 3 other competitors. you hear about them? neither did i.

it's a small group of big companies that care more about copyright protection and profit and keeping a stanglehold on the 'market' than consumer convenience and sound quality.

dvd-a/sacd ia a perfect example. no bass mismanagement, no delay, analog outs and remixed 30 year old analog tapes. imagine how much more slowly it would progress without the internet.

people like bob carver, david chesky, SKG and outlaw audio are the mavericks, the rare few who break the mold and have success and they are usually poorly received in the 'press'.

htf is a clubhouse of people who parrot the anthem of the forum. a lot of them wouldn't wait for the 950 and paid too much for something else instead. now that the 950 is readily available...the last thing they want to hear is that they should have waited.

this forum is unprecedented in the marketing world. i suspect a lot of companies hate the idea of it. i wouldn't be surprised to find out who some of the 'attackers' really are.

i originally bought the onk 898 receiver-as-pre-pro. it had terrible software glitches. i called repeatedly and was referred to a local repair center. the company lied, saying they had never heard of the problems. the repair center said they had no idea what was wrong or how to fix it. i was the first (and for a good while, the only) person to post the problem at audioreview. i sent it back and sure enough, other similar posts began to appear. if not for the internet, i would have thought i was the only one with a defective unit.

sorry for the rant. again...it was great to read how you handeled the situation at htf. i could never have kept my cool like that, and it showed the depth of your knowledge on the subject, which makes your opinion of the 950 a valuable one.

It makes a lot of sense to me, Kevin. I'm not so sure it's the product as much as the Outlaw "model", or the way they choose to go to market, that seems to lead some folks to trash the line. Seems some of the worst comments I've read come from folks who have never even seen a 950, much less heard one. Good point you made about upsetting the balance of power in this business-- I think the Outlaws have done this for sure.

The very few times I've read that forum, it's seemed like it was populated by a lot of manufacturer's reps. The general vibe I get there is that people are very biased, and unwilling to accept that something less than megabucks can be any good.

------------------
The Soundhound Theater

Speaking of megabucks. For the non-cagers who have not seen this concept yet, (I hadn’t) take a look at this: http://www.geocities.com/skews_me/tomahawk.html

Lena,
that put's my V-Star to a shame

I agree with the posters here.
I visit HTF less and less,even though it was my "home" for almost 4 years.
Guys like that Ricky dude draging those forums down[see DT forum].

To spread the "blame" a bit beyond HTF, I found my Waterloo at AVS Forum. Everytime I posted something positive about the 950, I was surrounded by the pack wolves who started tearing me apart, one piece of meat at a time. I finally just stopped posting about the 950.

And that was a forum admin'ed by RAF, one of the most enthusiastic 950 beta testers.

Like all of you, I can't account for the negative passion that has accrued around the 950. But anytime so many people seem to be so cheesed off at you, you must be doing something right.

Let's see: great product, outstanding performance, low price, the best customer service in the business. I guess if I owned something else I'd be hot under the collar, too.