quote:
John, have you never sold/exchanged/replaced/upgraded a piece of your AV? It’s going to happen with the 950 and every other product on the market. There are many men in the forums, whose life’s calling is to upgrade

Smart little Lena,
Yes I have, here are a few processors Ive owned,denon 3801-3802-4802,sony da4es-777es-tap-tae,onkyo898,adcom gtp-830,rotel995 stereo,bottlehead tube pre,lexicon dc-1,dc-2,mc-1,aragon soundstage.

If you do a search on htf you will see that me and Merc have had plenty of discussions/disagreements and I am NOT talking for him just mentioning the fact that he has since moved on from the 950. I am an upgrade freak as well and am always out to save a buck, buying used gear most frequently.

Your comments brings me to my point exactly. I said way back when that one of the best things outlaw had going for it was TIME, because no other pre-pro at the time had all the features and I was one who was waiting with baited breath for the release of the 950. As time passed, the competition grew( and caught up) to the 950. Now there is plenty of competition out there(many fine choices including the 950). Its not like buying speakers or even an amps because technology doesnt move that rapidly in that catagory. Maybe Outlaw will hit my "time window" in the future with a cutting edge product out before its time so to speak.

One other thing about the 950 using the same parts. For instance the aragon sounstage weighs 39 lbs while the 950 weighs 17 ?. I realize the aragon uses a better/heavier faceplate and casing is a bit heavier plus the balanced connects adds a little weight but double the weight ?..hmm

[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

That's what I wake up to every morning .. then it's turned off all day until the next morning....

But John, if Outlaw Timed out for you. Why do you spend so much TIME commenting on it? Do I have to have your Aragon, and at a later date, when you purchase something else. Do I HAVE to have that too?

So, you buy your equipment BY THE POUND??? Your comments might make sense in the case of a power amplifier where the power supply needs to be substantial, and thus has substantial weight, but you are way off base if you actually think weight has anything to do with how a preamp actually sounds.

The actual active components (ICs etc.) in ANY electronic device weigh mere fractions of an ounce.

Be aware too that there is a virute in having as simple and direct a signal path as possible. This is just good engineering practice.



[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited April 01, 2003).]

quote:
But John, if Outlaw Timed out for you. Why do you spend so much TIME commenting on it? Do I have to have your Aragon, and at a later date, when you purchase something else. Do I HAVE to have that too?

Mary, Im very touched that you are so concerned as to how I spend my time {Mom}. I promise I'll get off the internet and eat my dinner. As to your second comment about the Aragon, well you lost me there. If you really want an aragon just pony up and get one.

Soundhound, did I say that I buy my equipment by the pound ?..Just making an observation that if parts are exactly the same as you say(from pre-pro to pre-pro) they thereby should weigh aprox. the same as well. I agree that power supplies/transformers etc. are more of an importence in amps rather then pre-amps (but some would argue otherwise).

Also your comment about not taking money just market research. Well market research isnt free is it ? ask Lexicon how much time/money that they have put into their dsp mode (logic 7)..Theres plenty of companies that would pay dearly for their "market research"

[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

I'm very aware that some companies market "high current" power supplies for line level components, and some pre/pros have "arc-welder" power supplies, which of course weigh more. However, this is really overkill. In a component that supplies a low level signal that is mainly a voltage rather than a current, there is absolutely no need, nor sonic advantage in having a power supply that can supply more current than is needed to operate the circuitry (with reasonable voltage over-capacity to take into account low voltage AC situations).

Line level equipment like a pre/pro does not supply a significant current to the load. Simple Ohm's law calculations can tell you the amount of current and voltage that is needed for a particular signal drive. Having a power supply that can supply orders of magnitude more current that the circuitry can use may make you feel good that you have a "high quality" component, but this "feature" has absolutely no bearing on how the component sounds. All that excess current capacity goes unused simply because the circuitry doesn't require it (ohm's law).

A power amplifier is a different story, since as it's name implies, it delivers power, which is a function of voltage and significant current delivery.


[This message has been edited by soundhound (edited April 01, 2003).]

{Mom}. I promise I'll get off the internet and eat my dinner.

If only it was that easy! You’d be in ‘time out’ so fast your head would spin.

You do seem to be implying that a processor and/or amplifier's weight is a good measure of its inherent quality. Since Aragon's processor is heavier than Outlaw's it must be better-- right? Well, Outlaw's Model 770, 200 watt 7 channel amp weighs more than 90+ pounds. The Aragon Model 2007, 7 channel amp, with 200 watts into 8 ohms and 300 watts into 4 ohms weighs...... 49 pounds! Hey, where's the beef? Maybe Aragon left out all the quality parts? Or, maybe they don't see a relationship of weight to quality? Or, sadly, maybe Aragon ain't what it used to be. And, maybe, some are paying a lot more money for.... a name. Aragon's line does look good though, I'll give you that. Best wishes...

Whoa Steves,

Set down your coffee and go back and reread my post. Soundhound said that all the parts were EXACTLY the same in the 950 as other higher ended pre-pros (yes I said higher ended) anyway, giving this they should weigh aprx. the same was the point as stated, secondly my next post said I agreed with his statement(its right there for you to read)..

As far as Aragons new line up of amps go I agree, quality has gone down hill, but it also has a much cheaper pricetag and lighter then the classic aragons, which were better amps to begin with (probably by a long shot)

Money for a name ?..geez how many times do I hear that same old line..yea,yea I know everybody is just waisting their money
for the name (rotel/anthem/aragon/lexicon)..etc

You know, I had a good old NHT sub amp that also ran in class "g" just like the new outlaw after what 80 watts or so ?..

[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

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[This message has been edited by JohnTompkins (edited April 01, 2003).]

Steve,

The new Aragon 200x amps are closely related to the Acurus amps. I think only the new 8008MkII and Palladium 1K monos are true classic Aragon amps in the new Aragon line. The classic 8008x5 is merely a FIVE channel amp and weighs 110+ lbs and is 23.5 inches deep. The new 300x amps? I'm not sure. This is very indicative of my dealer/friend's conversation with the former owner of Mondial Designs (who sold his company to Klipsch)....Klipsch gutted some of the products.

I think the Outlaw amps are weight proportional to price and total wattage...notice the differences between the 750, 755, and 770. Unlike the B&K 5 and 7 channel 200 wpc amps that weigh exactly the same, the 770 weighs 12 lbs more than the 755.