The Chesky disc has a very eye-opening music passage in addition to the test tones. For the music selection, it's a simple bass guitar. In phase, you can hear the bass notes the instrument is playing, but you can also feel the rumble too. When it is played out of phase, you can still very distinctly hear the notes. Absolutely no difference. But ..., the rumble is gone.

It seems the MGM Lion might be a good test too.


In any event, I shall check it out further. I was watching a DVD the other night with quite a bit of bass, but had expected to 'feel' more bass than I was. We shall see.

Using the Chesky disk, I was able to verify no difference in bass output whether processing digitally or analog.
When playing the test section (cut 33) I was able to detect definite voids in the out of phase tests, vs. impact from the bass guitar as each note was strummed when 'in phase'. I could feel the 'impact' in my gut. I have not checked it with the RS meter as of yet, but it obvious when listening.

Interesting... What player are you using? All large, sub on in the player? And, you're using the 5.1 analog inputs into the 950, with the 80 Hz switch ON in the back? A two channel input won't work right.

Dale,

I'm a little late on this, but does the BM in your DVD player redirect the sub channel to the mains when you set the mains to Large and the Sub to No? The reason I ask is because the Denon 2900 doesn't and, according to Denon's engineers, it's no supposed to.

I am using a Panasonic CP-72. I have all 5 speakers set to large, the sub turned off.
I only run 5 cables to the 950. I don't run the sub. I 'hang' my sub on the 950 sub output, analog switch set to 'ON'. Everything below 80 Hz is directed to the sub via the 950.
I do not understand why a DVD player would have a Large setting for the mains if it does not include bass information to the 'large' speakers.
I am getting the full spectrum to all outputs from the player. If I am missing something, I don't know what it is, unless it's something below 15 Hz that would crack the foundation of my house. We call those earthquakes in California.
BTW I have the digital output of the player turned off, and the standard stereo (analog) output from the player fed to the CD input of the 950.

Dale,

Believe me when I say that I'm not looking for a problem for you. The response that came back from Denon when I pursued the LFE redirect thing in the 2900 was that the redirect is performed in a pre/pro, not a DVD player. Once I knew that the unit was operating as designed (even though I wasn't pleased), I was able to move on and I hooked the sub out from the 2900 to the 950. The only reason I didn't in the first place was because I was hoping to run stereo subs.

It sounds like you're listening to movies by decoding the DD and/or DTS in the DVD player. Did you ever run a test to ensure that the LFE content is coming through and that what you're hearing out of the sub isn't just the redirected bass from the 950? Again, I'm not trying to raise doubt for you. It's just that this was something that frustrated me for a couple of weeks and could easily go unnoticed.

Regards,

Bill

That's quite all right. I was really addressing what appeared to be a phase problem when using digital vs. analog output, and which I do not seem to have.
I guess I would need to look at the programming in the DVD player again, but not sure what I would do different. I do have it's digital output turned off, but doubt that is the same as digital processing. And in fact I can usually see the symbol light up in the DVD player (DTS or DD) when playing a DVD. I also wondered if leaving the sub on in the DVD programming and hooking it up would add something more (LFE?)...I do need to experiment more it would seem and do not mind doing that.
What would be the right test for LFE out of analog outputs?

None of the Pioneer players redirect the LFE output either (47a, 45a, 47ai). So you'd lose the dedicated LFE output from any disc you listen too. Dale, how are you checking for phase again? Real content or a test disc?

The Chesky test disk. Either using my DVD player with the digital optical output into the 950, against only the analog input into the 950. I detect no difference. In phase is in phase as described on the disk, and out of phase is out of phase as described on the disk. I never change the phase switch on the sub. db level on the RS meter are the same, etc.
I have also done more subjective comparisons with action disks (Tears of the Sun a most recent).
My HT room has a slab floor. So most all bass is conducted through the air.
I get lots of artillery shots falling in my lap, no problem. Digital or analog, they sound (feel) the same.
So either there is something wrong in my test setup or technique, or not all 950's are created equal.