The street price of the Denon 3803 with up-conversion is $900.

I agree the THX certification is not a true advantage.

Also DSP modes aren't necessarily an advantage, but are a feature that the outlaw lacks.

The Outlaw 5 year warranty is transferable too.

It would be rare to find a receiver in the $1000 range that is THX certified. Maybe THX Select, but certainly not THX Ultra2.

One more possibly. The 950 is compatible with DTS-ES discrete. A lot of receivers are only compatible with DTS-ES matrix.

Ahhh, most receivers only have a fixed, single crossover freq for all speakers (Yamaha), some have a global setting for all speakers (Denon), but it is rare to have settings for individual speakers or for sets of speakers (Sony and now H/K). The last is what the 950 has.

The 80 Hz analog crossover on the 5.1 inputs is a very good thing. Just that if you *don't* use it, *then* you get the dreaded "double bass" problem.

it would be cool if you could list the receivers that are truly equal competition for the 950 by price/features/warranty/sound.

the problem is that NO receiver manufacturer has a forum like this one that documents every conceivable problem with the product.

when the problem shows up here, outlaw does something about it. and any warranty service is done by outlaw, not the local jiffy lube/service tech center.

different strokes and all that. buy whatever you think is best for you, but i like this place. you get instant responses to every question. no receiver/pre-pro/player has been released without problems. getting answers/solutions...or even being made aware of a problem...is agony where the big manufacturers are concerned.

so, add this forum to the plus side for the 950.

I sort of missed the forum activity late last week and this weekend, and it looks like I missed a bit of excitement around here...

Part of the question here has to be "what receivers are we talking about?" My old pre/pro chart lists a few of the higher-end receivers along with some of the more prevalent pre/pros on the market, but it only tells part of the story. Yes, a few of the "flagship" receivers offer s-video to component upconversion (Denon 5803 and Pioneer Elite 49TX come to mind), but they are about the only ones. Many flagship receivers include THX certification and THX decoding (a variation of Dolby Digital / Dolby Digital EX), but that is less common on lower priced receivers. Analog bypass for stereo two-channel inputs is rare on receivers (I think the Denon 5803 has it) -- a feature that has become common on newer pre/pros like the 950, Rotel 1066, B&K Ref50, and Anthem AVM20. As some others have noted, many receivers still provide only a fixed 80Hz crossover for bass management, whereas the 950 has separate adjustable crossovers for mains, center, and surrounds. The warranty and the support for the 950 is unusual, as already mentioned here (5 year warranty, online community of users, manufacturer that works hard on customer service).

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Oops. Posted in wrong thread. That'll teach me to post on the board so early in the morning.

But I would add my backup for Outlaw customer support and warranty. It's a REAL thing as we early adopters can testify, not just a fancy looking page in the back of the manual.

[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited March 11, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by boblinds (edited March 11, 2003).]

You mean the DTS-ES bass management issue? Somebody near the end of the page linked above said that there was a report at AVS of someone with a P2000 suggestingn that there was not a problem, but there wasn't enough information to know if the test was conducted properly.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

The 950 is missing two key features that my two generations old Denon 3801 receiver had. The 950 does not autoswitch between a digital signal and an analog signal. This is important if you have digital cable where some channals are still analog. The 950 only has 5.1 preamp inputs. 7.1 inputs would allow you to hook your DVD-A or SACD rears to the rear speakers vice the side surrounds.

Tom

If you fit into the 5 small speakers and a subwoofer stereotype, but for many the inability to turn off the inappropriate bass management is actually a minus. In my personal opinion for my system it's worse than nothing, and if I end up with a non-Outlaw unit it will certainly weigh into that choice. It's sad too, since all that would have been required would be to shut off the bass summing when the crossover switch is off.

This is great feedback. Another round of feature comparisons.

Receivers Advantage

• Up Conversion of S-Video to Component
• THX certification (may or may not be important)
• THX decoding (a variation of Dolby Digital / Dolby Digital EX)
• autoswitch between a digital signal and an analog signal
• 7.1 preamp inputs
• DSP modes (not important to most)

Outlaw Advantage

• 6 channel Analog Crossover(including BM) for DVD-A/SACD
• DTS-ES discrete
• separate adjustable crossovers freq for mains, center, and surrounds
• Analog bypass for stereo two-channel inputs
• 5 year transferrable warranty
• online community of users
• manufacturer that works hard on customer service

There is a useful tool called (IIRC) a PMI chart, where you list plus, minus, and interesting differences. I find it useful since not all differences fit neatly into plus/minus categories.

My personal list would be something like this:

950 vs RCVR

Plus:

• DTS-ES discrete
• separate adjustable crossovers freq for mains, center, and surrounds
• Decoupled processing from amps
• Analog bypass for stereo two-channel inputs
• 5 year transferable warranty
• on-line community of users
• manufacturer that works hard on customer service

Minus:

• No up Conversion of S-Video to Component
• No THX decoding (a variation of Dolby Digital / Dolby Digital EX)
• No autoswitch between a digital signal and an analog signal
• No 7.1 preamp inputs, just 5.1

Interesting:

• No DSP modes (not important to most)
• Limited analog bass management on 950
• No THX certification (may or may not be important)

Or something like that.