Little Lena -- thanks for the feedback. I am most interested in the 950/1700 combo because of the price point of $1700. Otherwise, I probably would get the 755. The 770 is a hard sell $$ to one who is just fine with her $120 Sony! And if it's the best choice, I'll pony up the difference.

To clear up the confusion, currently I don't own a 950 at all. After thinking about it, I agree that purchasing an AMP and using the Denon as the 'pre-amp' would be the best first purchase. Now that you've pointed out the weak spots between the speakers and AVR might overlap, this is making more sense.

Thanks for the Denon3300 link. Will check out the settings this evening.

Do you have any opinions on between TIVO, ReplayTV and Dish Networks' personal digital recorder?

I think a remote with macros is critical. We use an MX-500, too. Press and hold TIVO and the audio source switches, then the video input switches. Likewise for DVD, XBox, etc.

On the subject of a DVR, I've used both Tivos (stand-alone and DirecTivo) and DishPlayers. The Tivo wins, hands down. The DishPlayer was unreliable and much harder to use. The DirecTivo is nice in that there are fewer D/A conversion steps and it has two tuners. My wife was a Tivo convert within a week, and can no longer deal with live TV. My sister (to whom I gave my stand alone Tivo) made a point of telling me that, "Tivo has changed my life." Mom likes hers, too.

--Mike

Now that you've pointed out the weak spots between the speakers and AVR might overlap I would expect using the pre and adding a separate amp, (particularly in my opinion a 770 or 755 with your current speaker sensitivity) to get a lot more ‘detail’ out of your AVR and speakers. Then again go ahead with the Outlaw 950/7100 and I think (you'll think) your speakers are a diffrent and better behaved animal). Beyond the rules of thumb that if x & y remain constant 100 watts only gets you 3 dB more. (My version of math), I was truly shocked at how much more the Outlaw (770) got out of my VA Beethoven’s than the Pioneer Elite Flagship (built in amps) , or a B&K Sep amp (model unknown) and one more I’ve forgotten at the time. Regardless that x amount of clean power should do about the same….the Outlaw stomped all those that I listened to in a demo room the size of my space with better acoustic treatments than I’ll ever have, when paired with the speakers I purchased.

That said, I would expect to ‘hear’ a difference if you started there. (a sep amp). But if my ‘guess’ about the description of what you and your wife are hearing (and are dissatisfied with) is anywhere close to correct. That possible ‘lack’ in the high lows and low ids, with a lack of bass impact, will not be much improved if you keep the AVR and the speakers together in your system since neither is helping the others ‘weak point’. . I do think adding the amp would help, how much, not sure? I really think that just calibrating could (possibly) make the whole system sound like you just plugged up a new one. The lack of liveliness you describe, Can honestly be that affected, - if the speakers have been trimmed terribly out of balance to each other.

At Outlaw you get the combo price, but you also do get a discount once you have purchased any Outlaw item (excepting cables). If your wife (bless her) is willing to keep working at this. The amp and quite possible getting a SW on line, might be a start to more drama in your listening. The SW does not ‘have’ to be expensive, or large, having any SW on line, helps dramatically with DVD HT impact. The good thing about them, is although many might argue with me, even if you pick up a cheap boomy one, you can pull it back, just to the point of beginning to help fill in, - - and it will still impact the whole favorably. Being basically non-directional, they are much easier to stash in (non-optional) wife approved spots, than all other speakers whose placement is critical to the final product.

If you picked up the AVR used, (non-returnable) and would rather try to keep it for a while, (if me). First step I’d purchase an SPL meter at Radio shack (about 39.00) and calibrate (immediately) your speakers, - then purchase the Amp when feasible. Next get a SW in there. Next, save for a new pre, which has strengths in the area that your speakers might lack. To keep from doubling the problem.

The last two paragraphs are coming from the angle that your speakers are the part of your system you wish to keep from upgrading the longest. There are those who have been at this a long,long time who will argue.
Prioritize the speakers first always. Put the largest percent of budget into that purchase. Personally I think they are 100% accurate and yet still wrong. I would never feel the satifaction that I currently have in my system if I did not have my Vienna Acoustics on line. BUT having heard the same speakers run with some other front ends. Yes I picked them because they sounded better (than other choices at the store) , but they sound BEST after being paired with my Outlaw combo.

It’s a vicious circle. I wish I could plop my 950/770 SW, VA speakers down in your LR for a week. To prove that all the hard work and detail and tweak that separates demand are worth it. (Your wife would never dream of climbing into the attic) Other than the fact that this process can be cruelly addicting, (some people) once they get ‘one’ system tweaked and running, can live with it (with out this constant work) till they feel 15 years down the road, they have become hopelessly outdated. (you don’t have to work this hard forever).

I would listen to Llamas and Boblinds on the Tivo, ( I hear TIVO raved about constantly) even the Pres of CES (I’m pretty sure) called “that box a gift from God”. Unfortunately, I have Direct Sat. and am not familiar with most Dish products. And have not used a PVRD since my VHS went off-line. There is some great stuff coming, but right now I don’t’ (think) I care about time shifting enough. I’ will wait on that portion of my system for a long time (till the best tech price drops) . Just content to spend big bucks on a HD STB when they ever get around to resolving the current crops problems.

Sorry for the LOOOOOOg post, have to get back to Moms tonight to replace cables on her new 60XBR800. So I’m rude to Outlaws BW and not editing for precise razor content. (NOT MY strong point ask any here )

Just a thought--even though you say this is the best placement you have found, many speakers, particularly if they are rear ported, will not sound their best if placed next to a boundary,such as a wall,if they were not designed for this purpose. You might want to experiment with placement away from the wall, if you can.
As far as simplifying your system, *and* keeping in mind all the good suggestions posted so far, the processors and receivers of today have so many features and choices offered, they are just going to take a little work to get you to the source and desired format you want. The 950 is as easy as most out there, however. IMO-- to get where you (and me) would like to go -- we are going to need something like IEEE 1394 "FireWire" or similar, so's we can finally daisy-chain all this stuff together for a "real" easy to operate digital system. Good luck Mr_D-- always lots of good suggestions and friendly help here if you decide to go with Outlaw equipment. Best wishes...

I would also recommend the MX-500. See some of the other threads on remotes in this forum. If you're on a budget, the One for all remote with JP-1 interface is an inexpensive (about $40 altogether) which can be programmed with your computer to customize all the buttons. The drawback with this is that you have to remember newly programmed functions on the remote. A big advantage with the MX-500 is the editable LCD display so you can make up your own (hopefully intuitive) labels for the buttons.

As for your 'repressed' sound, you do have a subwoofer don't you? I didn't see one listed in your equipment list. I suspect you've set up the 950 appropriately for your speaker setup, but just checking. If you're using analog bypass, there's a quirk with the 950 where you only get stereo output if you last were in a 2 channel configuration. This also affects calibration of the whole system, so you first have to be in a multichannel configuration first in order to calibrate and to listen to an analog 5/6 channel (like SACD or DVD-A). This really threw me at first on James Taylor's SACD where in 2 channel mode he sounded like he was singing from the bottom of a deep well.

As for calibrating with an ohm meter I don't think it would be very practical, even if possible. If you don't have one, definitely get yourself a Radio Shack SPL meter and use that to calibrate your system.

Ok, I appreciate all the feedback. Now it's time to act:

I just placed an order for 2 M-Blocks and copper interconnects. I'll use them on the front left and right speakers. I chose the M-Blocks because of *space*, price, and flexability. The Denon will (for the time being) power the center and surrounds. I figure this should address the immediate muffled-sound problem, especially for stereo CDs.

I'll pick up the RadioShack SPL meter tomorrow. I'm ready to order the MX500 Remote and the Tivo 80 hour recorder. Any suggestions where to order from? Also -- for the Tivo service, any advice on whether to pay $12.99 monthly or the $299 product lifetime fee up front?

I figure between the Remote and the Tivo, I'll be off to a good start to making the system friendlier. Hopefully, the M-Blocks, coupled with SPL calibration, should help with the muffled sound. If not, then I suppose the Denon's days are numbered. So that's the plan!

Thx,

Mr D,

Radio Shack currently has a sale going on on the analog SPL meters. There on for $30 right now until they are out of stock. Not every RS will have these though.....

Second, i own Monitor Audio Siver 5i's and they sound absolutely fantastic for music and movies. There is absolutely no muddled sound whatsoever, everything is detailed, crips and clear. How do you have your Silver 3's set-up? How far away from the wall are they when installed on your mounts? What height are they from the floor? Are they toed in?

Mr D

one more thing, go here to AVsmarts.com:

http://www.avsmarts.com/cgi-bin/avs/mx-500.html

they have the MX-500 for $129.99, type in coupon code RC2579 to save an additional $10 off your purchase so total is $119.99. I think this is about the best price and AVsmarts is an authorised dealer with good feedback. Have fun!

Actually, Lena, that "gift from god" quote came from the president of the FCC!!!

I'd tend to discount it, thougt, because I'm not convinced the FCC knows anything about god.

If I may chime in on this discussion, I find it quite surprising, actually, that anyone would have trouble operating a 950. It's not got a very complicated interface. It's a bit quirky, true, and inconvenient at times, requiring repetitive keypresses and all that, but it's not very complicated. It only has several menus and they're only nested one layer deep. Especially with the OSD, it's not too hard to figure most of it out.

I really wish they'd streamline the thing for the next iteration, maybe add more hard buttons for various functions, but there really aren't any features that it's got that I'd like to see it do without.

If you can program a VCR or use a microwave oven, I think you should be able to use a 950.

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Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net