My wife is about to chunk the HT system out the window and get one of those DVD-TV all-in-one combo units.

I understand her frustration -- it's still too difficult "as a system" to easily transition from watching TV, to recording a show via VHS, to playing a CD, to listening to FM stereo. How I wish the AVR could "detect" the source and adjust the outputs accordingly, that is, she puts in a CD and the controller automatically configures to "Stereo" mode. She puts in a DVD, it adjusts to DVD DolbyDigital mode. She puts in a VHS, it switches over to VHS/Pro-logic mode.

Additionally, for all the hours and hours of research, setup and configuring, the system sounds wierdly muffled. I have a Denon 3300AVR with Monitor Audio Silver3 front LR speakers, the corresponding MA center and bi-directional surrounds. I think the disappointing sound quality is the last straw for her. "My old $120 Sony receiver and BOSE 301s have more life in them! Please let me take them out of the attic" I don't know if the MA speakers are hard to drive or I have a bum AVR, I have to admit it's not impressive, especially playing a CD.

So I figure I have a month to SIMPLIFY the system and make it sound a little better.

For simplicity:
I'm pretty sure I will get the either the DISH Network PVR or a TIVO -- that will get the damn (composite video) VCR out of the loop and standardize ALL components on S-Video. That will reduce the complexity alot (right?) A friend told me about a Phillips Remote Control that looks like a Palm and handles macros very well -- can replace all the other remotes and program macros. In terms of easy operation and layout, how is the 950? Any other suggestions for sharing a system with the spouse?

The wierd slightly muffled sound:
No matter how 'loud' it gets, it sounds repressed, like there's a thin wall in front of the speakers. I'm wondering whether to replace the Denon, or get a seperate AMP to work along side the Denon (bypassing the Denon's amp section). Or maybe replace the MA speakers with more efficient speakers?

I can't spend a lot of time on this like I did the first time around. Hell -- I'm almost ready to rip it all out and give the combo unit with a red ribbon on top to make her happy. As you can tell -- I'm kinda frustrated with it also. Any ideas would be most appreciated.

Thanks

Wow, If you lived next door, I'd suggest whipping up a pitcher or margaritas and let's both go through this thing piece by piece. That not being the case (I'll have to drink the pitcher myself) I would suggest that you go through the manual to see if you have set the crossovers properly and that your subwoofer is working correctly (if you have one hooked up). Barring the unlikely problem that the tweeters in your speakers are blown, about the only thing I can think of is perhaps you have your speakers placed in non-ideal locations, with objects in their path which are absorbing the sound. The sound of Bose speakers in my experience has been very much on the bright side, so is it possible that she's used to that sound? This is a very difficult problem to diagnose by distance.

As for the operational problems of the equipment by your wife, I've never been able to figure that one out, except for the time I jettisoned the wife and kept the equipment If you're not ready to do that, perhaps creating a "cheat sheet" that's kept by the receiver with the necessary steps for each program source might help. I've also seen setups with colored dots next to the input and setup buttons that were color coded for each source.

Hope this is of some help!

------------------
The Soundhound Theater

What I did was get the Unversal Remote Home Theater Master MX 500 mega remote, program everything into that including macros to switch inputs etc for your individual usage, and then gave her a little tutorial on how to use it. That's the best hundred bucks I ever spent.

Mr D, Do you have an SPL meter? (did you calibrate?) When I went to separates...and not being born with the handbook, - the first two weeks my husband and I did the same, looked at each other and said…"it’s vastly underwheming, the old PL sounded better". Being my first time around the block setting up a system I don’t even know what all I changed. But one of ‘leaps’ to "Okay….something’s not wrong anymore, now it sounds like a system!. Was calibrating the speakers, incrediable the diffrence this can sometimes make.

Are your speakers a 4 ohm load? The 3300 is reputedly not a good match for 4 ohms. If your using the SPM’s with your CD playback try 5 channel stereo, a reviewer said skip the DSP modes on CD’s. And I believe it was commented that in certain modes it could be lacking in mids and base. (giving you that muffled effect although that usually I notice what I think of as (muffle) when my highs are out of whack. (pulled back). Lastly what DVD player are you using there was some issue with pioneer branded players as regards (?-something) in combination with this AVR. I’ll try to look up what review I read on it that mentioned these topics.


As far as the WAF factor, my best advice is to buy a learning remote, tell her your busy…give her the instructions and ask her to try and program just one thing. (Beg her too for you…she’ll have to read the instructions she’ll get one down, do the next one….one thing leads to another. You be surprised how wife’s can tend to ‘take over’ if they get just one of these things they never cared for under their belts. I was so shocked when I was the only one who could run our touchscreen remote (because I programmed it) that it led to bigger and better things. (WATCH OUT- its easy to create a monster)


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited March 04, 2003).]

If ease of use is paramount I HIGHLY recommend the TiVo over the ReplayTV. My wife and I have owned both of them and prefer the interface on the TiVo by a WIDE margin. My wife LOVES TiVo.

That repressed (distant? thin?) may be a symptom of having some of the speakers out-of-phase. Since this seems to be most of a problem with CD in stereo I suspect that your left and right main speakers may be wired out-of-phase. Check the speaker connections and make sure The + and - (red and white or red and black) wires are connected to the correct terminals both at the receiver end and at the speaker end. Unless your speakers are incredibly hard to drive the Denon should at least be able to make them sound better than the Bose 301's.

In terms of getting the best possible sound out of your system, Soundhound's and Smart Little Lena's posts are definitely a good start.

As for the "simplicity and 950" issue, it is a bit intimidating but I think we've had good luck with our setup. My wife uses the system mainly for watching TV (digital cable) and some DVD watching. I have all of my video sources in s-video, so the 950's switching takes care of everything -- the only command that goes to the TV is power on/off. One thing I did was create two macros on the 950's remote (which I am using to control everything): "M1" on the 950's remote turns in the 950, TV, and digital cable box and puts the remote and 950 in the "CBL" (video3) mode. "M2" turns all three devices off. We leave the digital cable in Pro Logic II (the 950 will remember the last processing mode used for each input). The CD player is on whenever the system is on (it actually used to always be on, as there is no remote power command for it, but not it is on a switched outlet on a Panamax MAX5100) -- all you have to do is select the "CD" button on the 950 and you are ready to go (in stereo mode). If she wants to watch a DVD, she uses the "M1" to get the system on, pops a disc in the DVD player, and hits the "DVD" button on the 950's remote. If I use the DVD player as a CD transport, I have two macros -- one to switch to the 950's 6-channel analog input (for DVD-Audio) and one to switch to the AUX2 input (which is set to use the DVD player's digital input, but is left in "stereo" rather than surround processing -- easier than toggling out of surround mode and then having to get back into surround the next time a disc is watched). If we use the VCR (rarely), that input is set up for Pro Logic II, and since it is an S-VHS VCR it's using s-video inputs, so I don't even have to use the 950's composite to s-video conversion.

------------------
gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Whipping up a pitcher of 'ritas sounds like a great start.

I have checked the obvious things like phasing, crossover, speaker connections etc. The room is very difficult -- a rectangle where the system is on the short side. The electronics are on the left side of the fireplace, the TV is on the right. Until I get the greenlight to hire a cabinet maker, there is no way to put everything on one side. The 12g speaker wire runs through the mantle -- measures approx 10 ft. The front LR speakers are wall mounted using nice mounts, about 6 feet apart. This speaker placement is the best I've found to date. No sub at this time.

Little Lena wrote:
"Lastly what DVD player are you using there was some issue with pioneer branded players as regards (?-something) in combination with this AVR. I’ll try to look up what review I read on it that mentioned these topics."

Wow. As a matter of fact, I have the Pioneer Elite DV-05. I never in a million years would have guessed that could be the problem -- any info you have on that would be most appreciated.

Also -- I have not calibrated with a SPL meter, I'll give it a try this next time around. The MA speakers are supposed to be 8 ohms -- I have an elcheapo ohm meter. Do you get a accurate reading by holding the leads on the speaker poles?

I'll look up this programmable remote. Good idea about her programming it. She has mastered programming the superdeluxe thermostat -- I won't touch the thing now.

Any comments on the 950? Any opinions where I should start first, that is, replace the AVR or the speakers?

Thanks for the replies, it's great to be discussing this with folks who appreciate this kind of stuff.

Dear Mr. D. Since you asked …otherwise I would not mess in your business, I feel strongly there is a ‘different’ best sound for each of our custom equipped auditory canals, we HAVE to individually choose. . If the Denon is still under return date, I would consider moving to possibly the 950/7100 combo at 1700 (?) I feel (not having heard the 7100, - I have the 770). That the Outlaw combo with the 100watt separate amp will outperform many receivers with built-in power rated at higher watts. If this is even feasibly in budget. I looked up your speakers if I’m in the correct model range they appear to be 87 senst which could benefit from the additional power a sep amp could provide. 8ohms. Upper mids a little forward, and upper base lower mids a little lean, suggested placement close to walls particularly without the addition of a sub to help beef up the bass. They are metal cone/domed. If you demoed a 950, one tweak with this particular set of speakers you might play with the treble trim pulled back one or two notches. If no children are in residence, these models are supposed to benefit greatly by removing speaker grill.

If budget, time, spouse is willing, I would demo the 950/7100 combo begging your wife’s' patience for another round of settling in for a couple of weeks. Its a lot of pulling hair but the end result can be so rewarding. Or better yet, with that sens on those speakers, - the 770, or start with the 5-channel 755. Then prioritize saving for speakers next, (if you decide any others are desirable) and take your time demoning possibilities there (and read all you can) for the next year. You may find the speakers when matched with the correct receiver or pre combo, are just what you want to hear. I have a feeling the 950, is going to make your silvers sound much better than the Denon is capable of delivering. I notice in a couple of reviews the lower mids are listed lean on these speakers and similarly the lower mids on the 3300, thereby placing the mix of (these two) weak points in the same frequency range, (one is not helping the other) It (could be) these two (speakers/AVR) together may not be your most optimum blend. However that’s just my ‘feeling/assumption’ nothing applies till you demo for yourself and your wife’s ears.

You’re a lucky dog, you know how when you surf you get lost through convoluted links, or you type the ‘keyword’ a hair differently and get different hits. I found the article in question on the denon. Now the Pioneer issue was not as I remember it, the ‘problem’ my brain teased me with is only that you need a pioneer with this AVR to get 96kHz performance out of it, just check your settings to see that your in the two modes which can provide 96kHz, when this apples.
“ Provided you have a Pioneer DVD player, the AVR-3300 can accept PCM sample rates of up to 96kHz and word lengths of 24-bit, but only in the Direct and 5CH Stereo modes and by bypassing all bass management. It's also easy to drop back to the analogue inputs for a particular source”.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbenc...nAVR-3300.shtml

JMAMS! be sure and ply your wife with SH's most excelent margeritas, before sitting down to talk it over!


[This message has been edited by Smart Little Lena (edited March 04, 2003).]

PS, Mr D, are you running a 950 currently through your AVR builtin amps? I may be mixed up on your setup currently. I assumed your running only the 3300 with these speakers. If your using the 3300 to power the 950. I would suggest a sep amp purchasefirst.

Little Lena -- thanks for the feedback. I am most interested in the 950/1700 combo because of the price point of $1700. Otherwise, I probably would get the 755. The 770 is a hard sell $$ to one who is just fine with her $120 Sony! And if it's the best choice, I'll pony up the difference.

To clear up the confusion, currently I don't own a 950 at all. After thinking about it, I agree that purchasing an AMP and using the Denon as the 'pre-amp' would be the best first purchase. Now that you've pointed out the weak spots between the speakers and AVR might overlap, this is making more sense.

Thanks for the Denon3300 link. Will check out the settings this evening.

Do you have any opinions on between TIVO, ReplayTV and Dish Networks' personal digital recorder?

I think a remote with macros is critical. We use an MX-500, too. Press and hold TIVO and the audio source switches, then the video input switches. Likewise for DVD, XBox, etc.

On the subject of a DVR, I've used both Tivos (stand-alone and DirecTivo) and DishPlayers. The Tivo wins, hands down. The DishPlayer was unreliable and much harder to use. The DirecTivo is nice in that there are fewer D/A conversion steps and it has two tuners. My wife was a Tivo convert within a week, and can no longer deal with live TV. My sister (to whom I gave my stand alone Tivo) made a point of telling me that, "Tivo has changed my life." Mom likes hers, too.

--Mike

Now that you've pointed out the weak spots between the speakers and AVR might overlap I would expect using the pre and adding a separate amp, (particularly in my opinion a 770 or 755 with your current speaker sensitivity) to get a lot more ‘detail’ out of your AVR and speakers. Then again go ahead with the Outlaw 950/7100 and I think (you'll think) your speakers are a diffrent and better behaved animal). Beyond the rules of thumb that if x & y remain constant 100 watts only gets you 3 dB more. (My version of math), I was truly shocked at how much more the Outlaw (770) got out of my VA Beethoven’s than the Pioneer Elite Flagship (built in amps) , or a B&K Sep amp (model unknown) and one more I’ve forgotten at the time. Regardless that x amount of clean power should do about the same….the Outlaw stomped all those that I listened to in a demo room the size of my space with better acoustic treatments than I’ll ever have, when paired with the speakers I purchased.

That said, I would expect to ‘hear’ a difference if you started there. (a sep amp). But if my ‘guess’ about the description of what you and your wife are hearing (and are dissatisfied with) is anywhere close to correct. That possible ‘lack’ in the high lows and low ids, with a lack of bass impact, will not be much improved if you keep the AVR and the speakers together in your system since neither is helping the others ‘weak point’. . I do think adding the amp would help, how much, not sure? I really think that just calibrating could (possibly) make the whole system sound like you just plugged up a new one. The lack of liveliness you describe, Can honestly be that affected, - if the speakers have been trimmed terribly out of balance to each other.

At Outlaw you get the combo price, but you also do get a discount once you have purchased any Outlaw item (excepting cables). If your wife (bless her) is willing to keep working at this. The amp and quite possible getting a SW on line, might be a start to more drama in your listening. The SW does not ‘have’ to be expensive, or large, having any SW on line, helps dramatically with DVD HT impact. The good thing about them, is although many might argue with me, even if you pick up a cheap boomy one, you can pull it back, just to the point of beginning to help fill in, - - and it will still impact the whole favorably. Being basically non-directional, they are much easier to stash in (non-optional) wife approved spots, than all other speakers whose placement is critical to the final product.

If you picked up the AVR used, (non-returnable) and would rather try to keep it for a while, (if me). First step I’d purchase an SPL meter at Radio shack (about 39.00) and calibrate (immediately) your speakers, - then purchase the Amp when feasible. Next get a SW in there. Next, save for a new pre, which has strengths in the area that your speakers might lack. To keep from doubling the problem.

The last two paragraphs are coming from the angle that your speakers are the part of your system you wish to keep from upgrading the longest. There are those who have been at this a long,long time who will argue.
Prioritize the speakers first always. Put the largest percent of budget into that purchase. Personally I think they are 100% accurate and yet still wrong. I would never feel the satifaction that I currently have in my system if I did not have my Vienna Acoustics on line. BUT having heard the same speakers run with some other front ends. Yes I picked them because they sounded better (than other choices at the store) , but they sound BEST after being paired with my Outlaw combo.

It’s a vicious circle. I wish I could plop my 950/770 SW, VA speakers down in your LR for a week. To prove that all the hard work and detail and tweak that separates demand are worth it. (Your wife would never dream of climbing into the attic) Other than the fact that this process can be cruelly addicting, (some people) once they get ‘one’ system tweaked and running, can live with it (with out this constant work) till they feel 15 years down the road, they have become hopelessly outdated. (you don’t have to work this hard forever).

I would listen to Llamas and Boblinds on the Tivo, ( I hear TIVO raved about constantly) even the Pres of CES (I’m pretty sure) called “that box a gift from God”. Unfortunately, I have Direct Sat. and am not familiar with most Dish products. And have not used a PVRD since my VHS went off-line. There is some great stuff coming, but right now I don’t’ (think) I care about time shifting enough. I’ will wait on that portion of my system for a long time (till the best tech price drops) . Just content to spend big bucks on a HD STB when they ever get around to resolving the current crops problems.

Sorry for the LOOOOOOg post, have to get back to Moms tonight to replace cables on her new 60XBR800. So I’m rude to Outlaws BW and not editing for precise razor content. (NOT MY strong point ask any here )

Just a thought--even though you say this is the best placement you have found, many speakers, particularly if they are rear ported, will not sound their best if placed next to a boundary,such as a wall,if they were not designed for this purpose. You might want to experiment with placement away from the wall, if you can.
As far as simplifying your system, *and* keeping in mind all the good suggestions posted so far, the processors and receivers of today have so many features and choices offered, they are just going to take a little work to get you to the source and desired format you want. The 950 is as easy as most out there, however. IMO-- to get where you (and me) would like to go -- we are going to need something like IEEE 1394 "FireWire" or similar, so's we can finally daisy-chain all this stuff together for a "real" easy to operate digital system. Good luck Mr_D-- always lots of good suggestions and friendly help here if you decide to go with Outlaw equipment. Best wishes...

I would also recommend the MX-500. See some of the other threads on remotes in this forum. If you're on a budget, the One for all remote with JP-1 interface is an inexpensive (about $40 altogether) which can be programmed with your computer to customize all the buttons. The drawback with this is that you have to remember newly programmed functions on the remote. A big advantage with the MX-500 is the editable LCD display so you can make up your own (hopefully intuitive) labels for the buttons.

As for your 'repressed' sound, you do have a subwoofer don't you? I didn't see one listed in your equipment list. I suspect you've set up the 950 appropriately for your speaker setup, but just checking. If you're using analog bypass, there's a quirk with the 950 where you only get stereo output if you last were in a 2 channel configuration. This also affects calibration of the whole system, so you first have to be in a multichannel configuration first in order to calibrate and to listen to an analog 5/6 channel (like SACD or DVD-A). This really threw me at first on James Taylor's SACD where in 2 channel mode he sounded like he was singing from the bottom of a deep well.

As for calibrating with an ohm meter I don't think it would be very practical, even if possible. If you don't have one, definitely get yourself a Radio Shack SPL meter and use that to calibrate your system.

Ok, I appreciate all the feedback. Now it's time to act:

I just placed an order for 2 M-Blocks and copper interconnects. I'll use them on the front left and right speakers. I chose the M-Blocks because of *space*, price, and flexability. The Denon will (for the time being) power the center and surrounds. I figure this should address the immediate muffled-sound problem, especially for stereo CDs.

I'll pick up the RadioShack SPL meter tomorrow. I'm ready to order the MX500 Remote and the Tivo 80 hour recorder. Any suggestions where to order from? Also -- for the Tivo service, any advice on whether to pay $12.99 monthly or the $299 product lifetime fee up front?

I figure between the Remote and the Tivo, I'll be off to a good start to making the system friendlier. Hopefully, the M-Blocks, coupled with SPL calibration, should help with the muffled sound. If not, then I suppose the Denon's days are numbered. So that's the plan!

Thx,

Mr D,

Radio Shack currently has a sale going on on the analog SPL meters. There on for $30 right now until they are out of stock. Not every RS will have these though.....

Second, i own Monitor Audio Siver 5i's and they sound absolutely fantastic for music and movies. There is absolutely no muddled sound whatsoever, everything is detailed, crips and clear. How do you have your Silver 3's set-up? How far away from the wall are they when installed on your mounts? What height are they from the floor? Are they toed in?

Mr D

one more thing, go here to AVsmarts.com:

http://www.avsmarts.com/cgi-bin/avs/mx-500.html

they have the MX-500 for $129.99, type in coupon code RC2579 to save an additional $10 off your purchase so total is $119.99. I think this is about the best price and AVsmarts is an authorised dealer with good feedback. Have fun!

Actually, Lena, that "gift from god" quote came from the president of the FCC!!!

I'd tend to discount it, thougt, because I'm not convinced the FCC knows anything about god.

If I may chime in on this discussion, I find it quite surprising, actually, that anyone would have trouble operating a 950. It's not got a very complicated interface. It's a bit quirky, true, and inconvenient at times, requiring repetitive keypresses and all that, but it's not very complicated. It only has several menus and they're only nested one layer deep. Especially with the OSD, it's not too hard to figure most of it out.

I really wish they'd streamline the thing for the next iteration, maybe add more hard buttons for various functions, but there really aren't any features that it's got that I'd like to see it do without.

If you can program a VCR or use a microwave oven, I think you should be able to use a 950.

------------------
Matthew J. Hill
matt@idsi.net

Hi Mathew -- we don't have a 950 yet. The question to 950 owners: Does your (non-technical non-audiophile) spouse love, like, get-along, tolerate, hate, operating the 950.
Thx

because I'm not convinced the FCC knows anything about god 
Dead on, it was in their interview together, and it was the FCC (my memory!). I was encouraged by THAT Pres. making that remark hoping it would make him a little more lenient minded when the FCC is asked to craft rulings which might impact fair use for pers. Copies.!

Mr. D, I have decided I’m might be a bit of an oddity, and I’m the ‘other spouse’ who took over, SO I don’t know how to rate for ease (if I had been my old self). The husband has ingrained knowledge when he bothers to apply it. I was boggled by trying to route my mothers Cable (A&B) and Satellite and OTA antenna wire enabling a VHS to record. He had to help me figure it out, since we had only 2 RF Coaxial inputs, open to route the 4 lines.

All the males here (I’m surrounded) get along with the 950, and because I have not done my job, the 950 remote is queued to only do about 90% of the HT functions. So we have a potential to have to deal with 3 remotes regularly. They (and their friends) have managed to que up the sound and a DVD and muck with the Sat. without input from me. Only occasionally do I have to get them out of a bind.
Before I started changing out display, STB’s etc. requiring new remote programming I have not had the time for, -I had the 950 and everything else on an old Sony Commander LCD remote which I programmed over a weekend. After about a week or two they all learned how to run the basic system. (and figured out how to run up the SW etc….a few things I wish they had not!.
Its nice to have a plan in place. Let me know if the calabration makes a diffrence!

I don't think the issue is the usability of the 950, as I don't think it's much different from other AV sources. It's the usability of any AV setup that combines multiple inputs and routes to multiple outputs that usually causes grief. This is why my original response was focused on a universal remote with macros; get rid of the multiple remotes and eight button presses to change modes, and suddenly the world is good again.

--Mike


[This message has been edited by Llamas (edited March 05, 2003).]

I think that the most confusing thing about the 950, isn't the 950, but the remote.

"Honey?" "Yes, dear." "Why doesn't the power button turn the 950 on?" (Sorry, couldn't resist...)

I will kiss the man that invents a remote that:

Intuitively senses what I want it to do this time as opposed to what I wanted it to do last time.

Went to eject the disc out of the Panny 91 on my way out the door. Normally a nicety loading the deck automatically powers up the player. But I had just shut the whole system, down with the remote. Then....walked over to eject the disc to take it with me.....sigh....it powered back on.

Sounds like the DWIM 3912 univeral remote...

--Mike

"Disk And Execution Monitor"? A program that is not invoked explicitly but lies dormant waiting for some condition(s) to occur or “Damn Warren's Infernal Machine” ??

I was going to say, "Do What I Mean", but yours is better.

I've been looking at the harmony remote.
It allows the user to select an activity
such as "watch TV", "Play DVD", etc.
The remote will configure itself such
that the volume, channel selection etc.
will be directed to the correct piece of
equipment.

For instance in my setup, I use the VCR
as the TV tuner and of course the 950 for
sound. The Harmony remote can be configured
to make this all transparent. No need to
switch between devices like most other remotes.


Looks pretty easy for anybody to pick
up and use once it has been set up.

Take a look at the review at http://www.remotecentral.com
There's also a harmony forum on the same
site.


Bill

I've already ordered the MX500. However, I got to admit the Harmony SST768 is quite appealing. The activity centered approach is very attractive to me and would be to my spouse also. I also like the fact that it's programmable using a website and uses an XML database structure. And it's not terribly big. I am looking at the size of the MX500 -- it's huge! I may have to get both and evaluate them.

Hear, hear! I'm always amused by threads where folks ask how they can get their "non-technical" wives to understand how to operate their a/v gear. Designing a pre/pro is technical; operating one is not.

I can tell you the line "If you can use a microwave, you should be able to us this home theatre system, honey ! [you moron!]" doesn't go over well. It's the dismissive message between the [lines] that in my experience starts an argument and cools any postive reception to "improving the sytem". I am trying a totally different tact -- and taking her very seriously.

I hope the entire HT industry takes UI and 'ease of operation' more seriously. Thing is I agree with her, there is loads of room for improving the 'ease of use' for the entire HT system (not just the pre-amp). I can personally vouch that this issue is affecting high-end AV/HT company revenues.

Also -- the VCR and Microwave UI has seriously evolved over the last few years. We have the VCR+, auto-sync clock -- there is nothing to program. The microwave has a extremely simple touch-screen interface and steam sensors that detect when food is hot. These products have truly evolved.

Stereo/HT systems, while it offers new sound technology, still is based on a very WEAK "system foundation". Would any pre-amp have the intelligence to KNOW the particular components attached and, taking into account the specs and features, be able to control them? Why aren't there FireWire/USB standards for connecting components to a pre-amp? Why can't you configure a pre-amp to my specific Monitor Audio Silver 3 speakers? I mean, the settings of "BIG speaker" and "Small speaker" are a little crude if you think about it.

I'm in the market for superior sound reproduction. I also want audiophile grade equipment that works together so that my family can ENJOY the HT system. That is the lacking ingredient. I'm would be willing to pay for that.

BTW -- after reading about the Harmony Remote, I cancelled the order for the MX500. The Activity Centered approach to operating the system along with Open Standards (XML based) configuration were too promising to pass up.

I started a thread (with a poor subject line) about this in 'new product suggestions' some time back. I do think it's time the industry considered getting out of the old 'switch-box w/ gain control' preamp paradigm and looked into a more 'task oriented' UI.

I'd like to see a pre/pro that came pre-set to common tasks but allowed me to add new things like 'Watch TiVo' or 'Listen to DVD-A', where each 'task' would include mode and signal routing / processing preferences. Also the ability to remove the default tasks is critical, since part of simplicity is removing options that are not applicable.

I'm not saying it would be easier for ME to set up, but that it would give me the tools I'd need to make it easier for others that use the system. In a way, on a day to day basis it would be easier for me too, but someone (me) would need to customize it to see the most benefit.

I mean, the settings of "BIG speaker" and "Small speaker" are a little crude if you think about it.
Off the top of my head, (and a lot more software to integrate). That’s an intriguing remark. Think how many speaker choices are really larger than small, but not truly wise to set to large consistently for all feeds. (My Beethoven’s) Could more customization of freq. Response range divided into a dial-in subdivided for 3 zones. (fronts/center/surrounds) get more out of the average system? Or is the broader control of ‘large/small’ close enough? Any further 'dialing in' only realizing extremely minimal returns?
Could this have the potential to optimize individual speaker setups to a greater degree?
But I see, a headache coming on, integrating added variables. Another sliding scale variable memory eater.

Big and Small are a misnomer. It's really just s boolean value to determine whether to apply a high pass filter to the speaker in question - the variable frequency of the associated HPF give a reasonable degree of control as to the actual capabilities of the speaker.

How is the High PF variable? It's not set at a pretty firm cutoff?

Charlie, how would the task oriented interface differ from the current one? Right now, if you have all of your inputs plugged into their respective spots on the processor, simply changing the active input from Xbox to DVD (for example) would bring all of the corresponding inputs into play. Granted, many pieces of equipment (cough, cough) could use renameable input labels to make this better, but...

The fly in this ointment is usually the display (as in television) where there's an input selection on a device not directly controlled by the processor is required.

Right now, macros do the trick, nicely. As you describe in your activity concept, I execute my macro for Tivo, and the processor changes to Sat/TV mode, my TV to the s-video input, and the remote ends on the Tivo device setting. How is that different?

I do have to admit that the whole shooting match would be greatly simplified (you still have to program those remotes for whatever random configuration of equipment you put together) if the devices could talk to eachother, though. That right there could lead to the macros being created by the AV interface behind the scenes, leaving geeks like us to customize the defaults and everyone else to just use without confusion.

--Mike

SLL: You get to pick what frequency the HPF rolls off at. (40, 60, 80.....)

Llamas: The difference is subtle, but IMO important. For instance I could have a Pioneer 47ai connected to the preamp and then begin creating a set of tasks like this:

DVD-Video: Route component video in 1 to video out, Route optical input 3 to all digital outputs and bitstream decoder and then out the audio outputs, using first of the following modes that will work on the bitstream. Set volume to current setting or -40, whichever is less. Use the following level trim values [][][]. ......

DVD-Audio: Route component video in 1 to video out, Route optical input 3 to all digital outputs and the 8 channel audio input to the audio outputs via the analog BM and gain section.

CD-Music: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....

It's pretty similar to what a remote does, but rather than issue a ton of commands from a 3rd party device put the brains to do it in the pre/pro. You've already paid for a CPU, memory, interface - use it.

I guess what I'm getting at is that in this age of multi-format DVD players, HT PCs and X-Boxes merely selecting an input is often not enough to tell the Pre/Pro what you wish to do with the signals the box will generate.

Many of hte Motorola based pre/pros even try to figure out which device is outputing a signal for you, and while it's nice I don't think it's required.

IMO it's pretty intuitive that to listen to 'Riding with the King' on DVD-Audio one should turn on the pre/pro, select 'DVD-Audio', turn on the DVD-Audio player, insert disk, press play. I don't know anyone who can read that wouldn't get it done without trouble - not true with some current setups.

One of the nice features about the 4.5 year old Sony TA-E9000ES that I had, was that it would automatically cycle through the physical inputs connected to a source looking for the signal. Something like coax then opt then analog was the hiarchy. And, that process was even faster than the 950 simply figuring out what the digital source type is on a source it already knows what the physical connection is.

I agree that the remote makes the 950 difficult to use. I can figure it out for myself and program things as needed but I know my wife would never be able to figure it out. She would like to be able to watch movies on the HT when I'm not there sometimes but hasn't figured out how to work the system. I'd love to reduce everything to one remote but I've still got 4 lying around the coffee table.

I'm considering the MX-500 as a replacement. Is it possible to get all the functions of the SL-9000 into the '500? Do I need the 8811 w/ JP1 All in One to do this or can I get by with just the MX-500? I'd rather not fork over the $ for a 700, are there any other good remotes to consider besides these 2? I need something that will be relatively simple so I don't have to write a manual for my wife to understand how to use it.

The MX-500 has been pretty widely complemented around here. It is not a JP1 remote, so you don't need to (can't) do anything with that. There is this goodie if you want to use your computer to configure the MX-500. It should be able to learn everything without much trouble. Several people here are using them with 950's, apparently with a great deal of success. As with any universal remote, it will take some work on the front end to get it set up so you and your wife can readily use it to control everything.

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gonk -- Saloon Links | Pre/Pro Comparison Chart | 950 Review

Mr_D -

Have you already purchased the Tivo? I just wanted to mention that I bought the DISH PVR 721 and my wife loves it. It has two tuners - you can record one show while watching another or watch a previously recorded show while recording up to two more at the same time! It has a nice GUI and is easy to use and has been reliable. Also, if you buy a Pay-Per-View movie that is in Dolby Digital (many are) it will output the Dolby Digital signal during playback for true 5.1 surround during playback. We use this feature a lot - hardly ever run to the store to rent a DVD anymore.

I had not seen anyone else mention the PVR 721, so I just wanted to let you know my wife and I love ours. And if you are new to DISH you can get one, along with the dish itself and installation, at a great price.

Finally, I imagine you will love your separate amps. I have seen firsthand the difference a "real" amp can make several times - it is not subtle. Most receivers simply do not have the high-current available that is needed to give a big, open soundstage with a lot of "air." I expect will be going back soon for 3 more amp channels! BTW, I highly recommend buying at least one more channel right now upfront - the center channel carries the majority of the load during movies and would benefit greatly from a dedicated amp channel.

Hope this additional info opens up another possibility or two.

I realize it isn't a JP1 remote but I got the impression there are some discrete commands that the MX-500 isn't capable of learning directly. To bypass that a couple of places sell a package that comes with a JP1 remove that can receive the discrete commands and then transfer them to the MX-500. A bit of a PITA but doable. It would be a savings of $50 vs the irclone but whether or not it would be a savings in time...?

I'll go over the options with my wife tonight but right now I'm leaning toward the 700. Although I'm not keen on touchscreen remotes I'll also give her the option of the Pronto 3000.