i wonder if this is a red dot vs blue dot vs no dot thing?

With two channel CD's (not DVD's) there's sometimes pretty good left vs right and side vs rear placement of surround content using just two speakers, playing regular CD's even without using PL II or PL II CES, because many regular CD's have powerful but subtle psycho-accoustics mixes of the soundtrack built in.

Some two channel CD's sound more alive and vibrant and exciting to me in regular two channel stereo than in 5.1 channel PL II-M or DTS NEO-M.

Just thought I'd give my personal observations. Of course YMMV.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited March 08, 2003).]

Steves- Did you turn off all your speakers except for your sub? That's the only way to be sure. Do you know what vintage your 950 is from? With a red dot or bought before Dec 17, or bought after Dec 17 or with a blue dot?

When I turn off all my speakers, I get no LFE channel for DTS-ES. I get it for DTS, and I get it for DD, and DD EX, so I know it's just a problem with DTS-ES. CES DD and CES DTS modes also work. Just DTS-ES.

I even turned my sub up just to make sure there wasn't some wierd + or - 10 dB thing going on (the auto boost you get with DD/DTS that for example, SACD and DVD-A don't have).

I haven't contacted Outlaw yet, because I know they watch these forums. I'm guessing they are confirming this on their own right now. Or, I'm guessing that they already know, and they are formulating a strategy on how to handle this. Purple dot this time?

I do have a blue dot (equiv) unit. Never tested it on the previous red dot (equiv) one I had.


[This message has been edited by Kevin C Brown (edited March 08, 2003).]

Kevin, Thanks for checking

Completed hooking up my 950/7100 this morning and one of the the first DVDs I tried was the Gladiator DTS-ES.
With front speakers set to Large, the rest to Small and the 950 showing DTS-ES mode during playing, I do get LFE from the sub during the "Unleashed Hell" chapter. However, it is a lot lower than normal, I had to turn the sub up to hear it. I comfirmed by touching the sub, put my ear adjacent to it and by both.

I like the 950/7100 combo so far...

JkFruit, Try dts-es playback with all speakers set to "Large". My 950 has no LFE output just redirected bass from "Small" settings.
Thanks,massi2u

Massi2u
When setting is large for all speakers, I get no LFE for the sub.

Thanks JkFruit,
Where's the Beef? (.1)that is!

Kevin-- I turned off all speakers per your request--- I got the same results you did--- I even tried the new "Stargate" disc--same result. Leaving it in DTS-ES, **and** leaving all speakers TURNED OFF- I then went to the menu and configured the fronts as large- and I had LFE! I then set the center as Large also and still had LFE. HOWEVER-- as soon as I set the surrounds as LARGE-- I had nothing- NO LFE! So, what does this all mean? I don't know! But it seems if you leave your surrounds set as small it works. Hopefully someone else can confirm this? My 950 is an original "no-dot". I was in the original early reservation group. (Coming up on its first birthday soon)! I have never really had any issues with mine, so never went to the red or blue dot versions. As an FYI I run all my speakers config'ed as small. Fronts are B&W M803's, Surrounds are B&W M805's and the center is B&W NHTM1. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it Best wishes...... Steve

No DTS-ES LFE for me either.

I have a blue-dot 950, SH Hiss-fixed unit.

Turned all my speakers to Large, turned my amps off (obviously not my subwoofers') and threw LOTR EE in.
Selected DTS-ES from the menu.
950 confirmed that the signal it received was DTS-ES discrete.

Got nothing from my subwoofer. Changed the soundmode to DTS and got full LFE.

Also tested w/ Simone:
nothing in DTS-ES, full LFE in DTS. Changed my dvd-player's output to DD-EX and selected DD-EX on the 950. Got full LFE.

This happens if I have my 950 set up as a 6.1 or 7.1 system (rear effects speakers set to 1 or 2 speakers).


I have faith in Outlaw to fix this GLARINGLY OBVIOUS problem. Can't believe that this unit made it out of QA in this condition and that none of us caught this earlier.

I'm really beginning to wish I had just saved the extra $1k and bought the Anthem AVM-20...


[This message has been edited by jgubman (edited March 08, 2003).]